Safe Speed Forums

Highways agency's take on this

Lane Hog

Thats a good little short there Johnny!

Particularly telling is the police officer's recounting of the occasion when a MLM was struck in the rear and killed. Blame whomever you like, he's still dead, and needn't be.

QED I'd say!

isn't that the insurance industry view as well? Get hit from behind, even if it's your fault, your no-claims is safe.

Hence all these reported "failed brake light" scams?

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

It is indeed, and it's barking mad.

I normally avoid its ilk like the plague, but thanks to others watching it, I caught a bit of the X Factor tonight.

You get people on there who genuinely think that they're going to win. They sing. They're absolutely, amazing awful. Cowell et al are of course quite clear about their lack of ability. Does this make them realise how awful they are? No. They still think they're incredibly good at singing, and they know better than the four experts in front of them. They're often rude to the experts. It's absolutely staggering how bad they are, and how wrong they are about themselves.

They are hugely, offensively opinionated, and once they get it into their tiny minds that they're good at something, they simply will not accept even the slightest criticism. I detest such attitudes, and while they're fairly harmless in the context of reality TV, such people are a real pain in the backside when we have to deal with them in real life.

Malicious, deliberate MLMs would also appear to have this appalling attitude. No amount of rational explanation from people who know what they're talking about will have the slightest effect on the MLM's belief that they are right. I suppose we should be thankful that we only encounter them when we're out and about; imagine having to live with one.

If MLMs, appalling singers and all the rest could just realistically appraise their own abilities, and accept that they're not right all the time, I'm sure society would be infinitely more bearable than it is.

But sadly, I've come to the conclusion that arguing with ardent MLMs (as opposed to "unaware" ones) is a lost cause. Once they've formed their opinion, that's it. One of the problems with being so opinionated is the inability to admit that you've been wrong all along, however much evidence there is (these people don't make good scientists). We need to do all we can to ensure that new drivers don't develop such nasty, antisocial ideas, and tweaking the driving theory test somehow is presumably the best way to do it.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

That’s an excellent analogy, but exaggerated by the affectation of many of the ‘contestants’. I don’t believe that many are genuine, and they are probably picked for being obtuse.

Just like certain ‘posters’, it’s 5 minutes of attention, and they would rather argue that black was white than melt away into a state of agreement with the cognoscenti.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a345.asp

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

If the police are calling these people clod's then we have plenty of names to retort back if they truly drop the standard of argument to this.
If the police werent busy oogling and wishing their evil way with our daughters/wifes/mothers walking along the road then we'd all be better off (see other article on police and their taped comments).

Ultimately it shows the general malaise in the force and failure to target the true root of many problems on the road ---

1) drug driving
2) untaxed cars
3) false and no existant mots
4) unlicenced drivers
5) uninsured drivers
6) hgv40 - not even close to policing it...
7) agressive drivers
8) non existant policing of the mobile phones
9) ignorance of foreign drivers and failure to prosecute

This added to the attraction of capturing as many motorist that dont breach the above - seems to only backup the premise that they are targetting people to pay "fines".
No point tackling Johny Asbo with his lack of licence, insurance and the rest - when they know he wont be able to pay the fine...

Ultimately this forum has now wasted 19 pages to MLM's - and still dont have a clue as to best fix this problem.

Lets hope some can get back to the ethos of the forum and be more constructive in their attitudes - reduce the mud personal slinging and concentrate on the issue.

If someone else accuses me of not doing further tests or IAM test I may have to start another thread to discuss the people in question and their inability to avoid personal slights.

- Keep left when appropriate
- Use the other lanes for overtaking
- Don't block passing traffic for the gratification gained from hacking off so-called 'speeders'.

Be a good example to other drivers rather than try to force them to drive the way you want them to.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

I don't go for that concept.

If the 'other drivers' copy the behaviour of (yet more) others, who's to say that they are copying from the better drivers rather than the worse drivers?

I do nothing to 'set an example' but I do everything to ensure my safety, that of my passengers, and that of other road users around me.

If we do go for 'setting an example'...

- Where do we stop? Do we only overtake where it is safe for the vehicle behind to do so also?

- How much do we compromise on our own safety for the sake of a failed communication attempt to someone else who isn't even interested?

- Do we suggest that others should be copying us rather than making their own decisions?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Not a surprise, as I've suggested it. If one of your favoured posters had suggested it I suspect you would have agreed.



That's the point, isn't it. I didn't say "copy other drivers", I said "be a good example". Take a moment and try to understand the word "good".

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Excuse me, but I can tell you for sure that that is complete bollocks.

For a start I had the same argument with Steve Haley (author of MIND DRIVING) and was persuasive enough that the idea was dropped from the book before publication.



Yeah, but there has to be an assumption that behaviour is copied by someone. If behaviour is copied then there will always be bad examples to copy - and bad examples will be copied.

It's better - and far far safer - to give the message that copying behaviour is a bad idea.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

That must be wrong. The whole point of education is to demonstrate the correct methods/behaviour and have people copy them.

But isn't this thread a prime example of how the wrong things can be copied? MLMs wouldn't dare to lane-hog if other people weren't doing it as well. This is partly why you tend to see long lines of the morons, with the inside lane completely clear. They lack the volition to think for themselves.

I would rather people learnt how to do things independently and/or through training. Every now and then I get comments from people like "Oh, I hate that junction, I don't like negotiating it unless there's someone that I can follow". Such practices do not need encouragement.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

I have to say, I agree with Handy.

We should not go out with a view to compelling other drivers to emulate us, that would make us no better than the MLMs, and nor are we in a position to dictate what exactly about our own driving others should be taking example from. We can, however, act as examples for the good driving practice, given to us by experts, by always using the left-most available lane suitable for our current driving situation, regardless of those who may neglect to do so.

Setting an example does not mean dictating the rules of good driving, it means adhering to them in plain and public view.

We should be leading with behaviour which is widely accepted as being social (legalities will fall into line, assuming the policies are right), not what individuals believe is right.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

In the sense that your driving sets an example to an observer then I would have to agree with Handy. Surely it is better to set a good example than a bad one?

This would be in the passive case only not actively seeking to set an example to another driver, is this what you object to Paul?

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I think I tend down this line - don't go out to set "an example" but if other drivers pick up on your good habits and follow suit then all well and good.

However I don't think any driver should go out there with the intention making an example and as a road safety policy we certainly should not expect it or condone it. (thinking of brigades of P(r)ious drivers!)

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

Education starts with ‘Explanation’, followed by ‘Demonstration’.

The last thing I want is someone copying me when they have neither the knowledge nor the reasoning behind my actions.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished