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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 13:01 
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Bolton News wrote:

A WOMAN who ignored a rolling road block on the M61 has been ordered to pay £300 and had six penalty points added to her driving licence.

Tia Wilson sped past Highways Agency cars as they slowed traffic down to allow workmen access to the road.

She appeared for trial at Bolton Magistrates' Court charged with driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.

Wilson, aged 36, from Stretford, Manchester, was driving on the M61 between Westhoughton and Horwich on Friday, March 2.

She denied breaching a rolling road block set up by Highways Agency Traffic Officers from the North West Traffic Officer Service outstation.

But the two traffic officers involved in the operation told magistrates that at around 9.30pm they had put a rolling road block in place on the M61, between junctions five and six northbound.

It was to allow contractors to safely cone off the outside lane for maintenance work.

A rolling road block normally involves one or two Highways Agency vehicles travelling at a reduced speed and slowing traffic flow on the motorway to enable work to be carried out ahead.

A few minutes after the block had been put in place officers saw Wilson heading down the inside lane at speed before passing their high visibility patrol vehicle at the front of the block, the court was told.

The officers made a complaint to Greater Manchester Police who decided to prosecute Wilson.

Magistrates ordered her to pay a £200 fine and £100 costs and added six penalty points to her driving licence after she was found guilty.

A spokesman for the Highways Agency said: "This is the third case of its kind involving drivers ignoring traffic officer instructions on motorways in Greater Manchester.

"Highways Agency traffic officers have no police powers but it is an offence to ignore their instructions at incidents and when they are managing traffic."

10:56am Thursday 27th September 2007



Not sure if this is another case? It does say the "third case" in this article. :roll:

Have to say I think justified given the situation though..

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 14:21 
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How did they indicate to her that she was not allowed to pass? It might sound obvious with hindsight, but I'd never heard of a 'rolling roadblock' until recently, it wasn't in my driving test or the highway code.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 19:39 
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Zamzara wrote:
How did they indicate to her that she was not allowed to pass? It might sound obvious with hindsight, but I'd never heard of a 'rolling roadblock' until recently, it wasn't in my driving test or the highway code.


Have mits on new Highway Code and sadly - cannot see any firm advice on this either. :roll:

Usually we indicate this on the gantries and up here in Durham - we position either HATO or REAL POLICE in position with flahsing lights and messages on our rear screens of the 4x4 /larger vehicles - so that no member of the public can get confused. Oh.. admittedly we ain't as "busy" as GMP or the Met -given we serve a relatively "cool and calm" spot :lol: by comparison :popcorn: - but our fast stretches are main arteries linking uis from North to South and to our West - and still can be "nasty" at times. :wink:

I agree with you that we need to have some sort of THINK! campaign to advise the older and experienced out there as to "how to deal with ever changing situations" such as rolling road blocks and even to all out there - how to cope better with all emergency vehicles on an obvious shout as well.

I am not at all suggesting anyone has lack of expertise or ability to cope with these adverse situations - but it does help them if they have some basics of some guidance. After all "forewarned is fore armed". I will be writing to the DfT over this concern since you have raised it with a view to getting some general guidance in place. Thank you for telling me and our official :wink: lurks that there is a bit of a problem brewing here :bow:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 19:49 
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Speaking of the "revised" Highway Code - hear from the Wildy :neko: who happened to be recalled to her Swiss HQ the other week - that most of Europe published their revised editions at the same time as UK. Typically, Wildy :neko: - as a committed motorist - bought these copies for comparison. She called me - purring quite lyrically like she's drunk soem full cream :lol: :roll: - that the French and Swiss seem to be promoting C O A ST in theirs and that cyclists are required to wear hi-viz and use cycle lanes.


Their versions do advise with photos as to what to do when faced with a vehicle on an emergency call and do allude in passing to "rolling road blocks" and what to look out for. I am posting per Wildy's excited phone call to me. I have yet to see her purchases with my own eyes. I can read French and German by the way. I did spend many holidays with the riff raff in Switzerland after all and I did learn these languages up to old O Level standards as well. I did obtain a very decent pass too :loll:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 19:55 
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How on earth did the contractors manage before HATOs? They have a big f'k-off lorry with high intensity lighting on the back of it, and they drop the cones off the side!!

If the woman was able to overtake the HATOs then obviously their 'rolling road block' was not blocking! As I understand it, they have no authority to stop her!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 20:38 
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I do wonder when I read Mad Doc's post as to whether or not she mis-understood or mis-read an instruction. However, her defence should have argued this out for her. I do not argue ever "the law is the law which says.. whatever" I know from experience that a good defence lawwyer can expose flaws in the law and in any evidence prosecution places before the courts. Police evidence and reporting is often also on trial. I suspect they may have had presented decent evidence and perhaps defence here was not quite "au fait" in his or her argument on her behal. I do not know this for sure. I am trying to be fair and balanced here after all and stimulate reasoned discussion too :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 20:41 
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RobinXe wrote:
How on earth did the contractors manage before HATOs? They have a big f'k-off lorry with high intensity lighting on the back of it, and they drop the cones off the side!!

If the woman was able to overtake the HATOs then obviously their 'rolling road block' was not blocking! As I understand it, they have no authority to stop her!


Might of course depend on what they saw her do. Remember that CCTV cams can also be used in evidence. :roll: :popcorn:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 20:50 
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So where is the detail on 'Rolling Road Blocks' in the Highway Code ? Correct, it's not there !! Seems to me this is an unsafe prosecution, and HMG need to sort out the law.

It's the same with 'signalised roundabouts'. There is no body of instructions in how they are to be signed and how to be negotiated. Here in Crewe we have two new ones and there is a near-miss every day. It's low speed stuff (obviously), so the County Council don't care a damn about their stupid installations. They clearly are in the pockets of the traffic light manufacturers. I wonder how many brown paper envelopes containing 'a few sovs' are being sent out out and about!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 21:25 
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I was first on the scene of a motorcycle accident on the m25 a year or two ago and assisted the traffic plod who arrived on scene by directing traffic. it was 7:30 in the morning and the accident was causing a major impact.

I could see the ambulance making progress up the hard shoulder and put my arm up to hold traffic up to allow the ambulance to move across to the outside. As the ambulance leveled I made the mistake of lowering my arm.

driver in lane 1 then moves off and almost T-bones the ambulance. It was obvious to me why I was holding the traffic back, but clearly not to him.

Fortunately the Rider was not seriously hurt.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 00:59 
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I dont see anything unsafe about the conviction, because the offence is vague and open to interpretation - with good reason.
It's not a new offence - it is years old, and covers a whole range of bad practice by road users.

The clue is in the detail :
Quote:
A few minutes after the block had been put in place officers saw Wilson heading down the inside lane at speed before passing their high visibility patrol vehicle at the front of the block, the court was told.


If this was backed up with witnesses, or CCTV, then it's a fair cop.
I think the sentence is a bit severe, but even that might be apt if the driver failed to convince the court that they had learned a lesson. :oops:

Quote:
She appeared for trial at Bolton Magistrates' Court charged with driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.
<<snip>>
She denied breaching a rolling road block set up by Highways Agency Traffic Officers from the North West Traffic Officer Service outstation.
<<snip>>
A rolling road block normally involves one or two Highways Agency vehicles travelling at a reduced speed and slowing traffic flow on the motorway to enable work to be carried out ahead.


Now that they have seen fit to resurrect this law of driving without reasonable consideration for other road users, then it is about time it was used as it once was to prosecute drivers who tailgate, hog the middle lane, or splash pedestrians as they pass puddles! :wink:

I believe the qualifier used to be if you occupied the middle/outer lane for 1/2 mile or 30 seconds without passing a vehicle, then the law could be brought to bear.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 04:07 
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Surely if a "rolling roadblock" is needed then it should be done by the police?

How is overtaking a HATO (civilian) vehicle, even if it has flashing amber lights on it, any different from overtaking a convoy/escort vehicle?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 07:25 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:

The clue is in the detail :
Quote:
A few minutes after the block had been put in place officers saw Wilson heading down the inside lane at speed before passing their high visibility patrol vehicle at the front of the block, the court was told.




Sorry to disagree but it is not illegal to undertake cars when the outer lanes are congested.

I don't reccomend it but we are talking about law here.

inside lane=ok in heavy traffic

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 09:00 
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Ziltro wrote:
Surely if a "rolling roadblock" is needed then it should be done by the police?

How is overtaking a HATO (civilian) vehicle, even if it has flashing amber lights on it, any different from overtaking a convoy/escort vehicle?


Yep. There is nothing in law or in the Highway Code that provides for a 'do not pass another vehicle - it's a rolling roadblock' signal.

So I cannot see any possibility of a violation here.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:13 
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anton wrote:
Sorry to disagree but it is not illegal to undertake cars when the outer lanes are congested.

I don't reccomend it but we are talking about law here.

inside lane=ok in heavy traffic


But she was not charged with undertaking, nor passing a HATO vehicle - it was driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.

The story as described in the press seems to indicate that work was about to take place, workmen might have been in the carriageway, and resonable precautions were being taken.
Undertaking is not illegal, but should only be done in a safe manner - which (perhaps) does not include endangering workmen.

I would hope that most drivers were familiar with a rolling roadblock procedure... but I agree you cannot assume that this is the case, and perhaps the HC should have included a paragraph or two on this. That's not to say she would have read it!!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:49 
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Did she plead 'Guilty' by post, appear in court and/or try a defence to the charge?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 14:11 
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Have to say I can't see a problem with this. The HATO vehicle has a lawful role in managing traffic movement. If the prosecuted driver saw the HATO and intentionally decided to ignore it, she was driving without due consideration. If she saw it but did not understand she was required not to pass, or did not see it, she was driving without due care and attention.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 14:46 
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Observer wrote:
Have to say I can't see a problem with this. The HATO vehicle has a lawful role in managing traffic movement. If the prosecuted driver saw the HATO and intentionally decided to ignore it, she was driving without due consideration. If she saw it but did not understand she was required not to pass, or did not see it, she was driving without due care and attention.


What signal or behaviour on the part of the HATO vehicle wuld convince 'a competent and careful driver' that they were not supposed to pass?

I ask because I don't know the answer.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 15:21 
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I must say that if I came across a slow moving HATO (or police) vehicle holding back the traffic in the outside lane, I would assume there was a blockage in that lane only & would pass them in another lane.

If the whole road was to be slowed down, I'd expect to see a vehicle in each lane slowing down individual lanes.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 16:52 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Observer wrote:
Have to say I can't see a problem with this. The HATO vehicle has a lawful role in managing traffic movement. If the prosecuted driver saw the HATO and intentionally decided to ignore it, she was driving without due consideration. If she saw it but did not understand she was required not to pass, or did not see it, she was driving without due care and attention.


What signal or behaviour on the part of the HATO vehicle wuld convince 'a competent and careful driver' that they were not supposed to pass?

I ask because I don't know the answer.


Better ask on PH. As the HATO has same traffic direction powers as police, I suppose it's the same as marked police car would do. Flashing lights, hand signals, straddle lanes, message board in rear window?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 17:00 
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Observer wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Observer wrote:
Have to say I can't see a problem with this. The HATO vehicle has a lawful role in managing traffic movement. If the prosecuted driver saw the HATO and intentionally decided to ignore it, she was driving without due consideration. If she saw it but did not understand she was required not to pass, or did not see it, she was driving without due care and attention.


What signal or behaviour on the part of the HATO vehicle wuld convince 'a competent and careful driver' that they were not supposed to pass?

I ask because I don't know the answer.


Better ask on PH. As the HATO has same traffic direction powers as police, I suppose it's the same as marked police car would do. Flashing lights, hand signals, straddle lanes, message board in rear window?


If we don't know, what chance do ordinary members of the public have?

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