Safe Speed Forums

Hey, I am more than happy that its the peds that die rather than moi? What would you say? Would you rather die in a squashed concertina cabin squeezing your skull to implode through your eyeballs, just to let some random ped suffer a fracture rather than a broken bone?

(Ex fractured ped from RTA, and now a dastardly car driver too)

Refusing to wear a seatbelt is the ultimate in total wankerism.

It really doesn't bother anybody whatsoever, unless they are so fat as to have a medical condition - in which case your doctor will prescribe a note to absolve you of such a terrible safety measure.

Personally, I have very rarely found meself without the old belt attached and suddenly found meself feeling "naked" and having to pull over at the safest opportunity and sort it out.

Obviously the "non-belters" are the same people who subscribe to Health & Efficiency magazine, and worry sheep and stuff. They are clearly deluded.

I'm confused now. Surely you're not suggesting that making car occupants wear seat belts CAUSES pedestrians to die are you?!

I think it does. I think drivers feel safer with seatbelts, alter their behaviour to preserve a comfortable level of risk and hence pose an increased risk to others. John Adams report is here: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/risky-business.pdf

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Not all occupants, only the drivers.

Not sure abouty you, but I take even greater care (in terms of acceptable risk) when I have passengers...

i struggle with this.... i can only vaguely recall being in a car without rear belts when i was younger let alone without front belts.

my entire memory of being in a car involves being belted in, as a passenger, learning to drive and several years experience since.

i don't feel any change in risk as for me there is no change, wearing a seatbelt is the default.
so the idea that because i'm wearign a belt i'll drive in a more risky fashion seems , well, wrong.

certainly i'm on a close lookout for peds & other hazards, a road near our house is often parked up on both sides of the road and pretty tight at the best of times.
the visibility for oncoming cars/buses is pretty good, i could do the 30limit down here quite easily with little fear for my own wellbeing. i don't of course and am often the cause of annoyance to others behind me doing 20-25 in places due to poor visibility of potential peds and particularly kids between cars.

so in my individual case (i admit) i don;t realy see how wearing a seatbelt makes me transfer risk anywhere, or suddenly makes me a wanton ped mower.

We have doctors' statements that it was a belt which caused a broken neck or cracked ribs and ruptured internal organs. We have testimony from witnesses who tried to help people get out of a burning car but were unable to do so because the belt buckle was jammed. How much evidence do you need that in some cases belts do more harm than good?



Indeed. As I said earlier, if people accept seat belt and helmet laws, then why should they not accept a government-enforced diet, mandatory warm clothing, compulsory immunizations and surgery, and a whole range of other things "for your own good" or for the benefit of society as a whole?

Moreover, what I can't understand is how so many people who would be absolutely horrified at the thought of any of those laws aren't similarly opposed to the seat belt laws. It's illogical.



I can assure you that belts do bother a lot of people. I know many who find them uncomfortable and freely admit that they are only using them because of the law. Maybe if you've grown up always using a belt you find it odd to ride without one, but there are many of us who grew up never using belts and who find them horribly restrictive.

I was going to mention the medical exemption. If belts are to be forced upon everybody because it's supposedly for their own good, then why should some people be allowed this exemption? Unequal application of the law again.

I don't think you are even sure about what I wrote. I have already said this is NOT about personal opinion and experience.

The reply (to Mole) was simply pointing out that belting up passengers would have little effect on the numbers outside the vehicle killed and injured as the driver is the only occupant likely to be 'responsible' for them. (Although I can imagine a situation in that by having secure passengers it might make a driver feel that they could take greater 'risks'....etc.)

How do you feel if you drive without wearing one?

I don't think I do to be honest Paul.

I have ridden a motorbike without a helmet or gloves. I just had jeans and a T-shirt and thought I was going to die when I got up to 40 mph.

Wearing a helmet and all the gear makes me feel safer, because I am. But I don't get quite the same feeling not wearing a seat belt, I guess, because I'm in my protective womb-like bubble.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

That is a pretty good description of the sort of behaviour that leads to the effects of Risk Compensation.

i don't.

Even, on occasion, by mistake?

If you haven't, why not try just to get a feel of what it is like?

I’m afraid that did nothing to answer Mole’s question.


What are the relative exposures?


It’s a balance between doing what you can to enjoying life and safety.


“horribly restrictive” I don’t think so. When reversing yes but not otherwise. If they’re that bad then why don’t you campaign for a seatbelts which are not so restrictive? That sounds to me like a logical compromise.

Furthermore you have fallen for the trap you have been trying to warn us about: basing arguments ‘without any proper research’. Statements like ‘I can assure you…’ cannot fill readers with confidence.


Because some people are significantly more sensitive to injury from belt use than others?

Many years ago I was passenger to a young and 'spirited' driver who was lucky enough to drive a fast vintage car - no seatbelts were required or fitted Needless to say I pooped myself (actually I never rode with him again). When I asked him how he felt about not wearing a belt, he said he was very careful at first, then he had become indifferent to it, then he simply forgot and drove as normal!

My point being: there will be an initial additional awareness when you first drive without belting up, but this could pass with time.

So if I get your drift, the safer we are or the safer we feel - the madder we drive? Hmm

Somone could make a case for making cars very unsafe in order to improve road safety. (not me)

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Have you not heard of the 'attach a large spike to the steering wheel pointed to the driver' idea? People in other arenas have suggested it - I think some were serious about it.

Indeedy, in fact I said that very thing just recently although I confess I knicked it off someone from another thread yonks ago.

Maybe a different sort of seatbelt then? How about some cheese wire around the drivers neck attached to the headrest?

There coming to take me away ha ha

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

ok then.. i just drove from the car park at work to the secure compound.
it felt like i was driving without a seatbelt.... and?

oh and it gave me a very annoying ringing noise in my ears.