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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 07:20 
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Oooops!

The irony is the button Lewis pressed on the steering wheel is the same one that prevented him from stalling the car when he slid off into the gravel at the European Grand Prix thus allowing him to be legally lifted back on to the track and continue racing without being disqualified for getting a push-start.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 23:44 
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Just a note to say that I've got my fuel in the freezer RIGHT NOW!......... :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 08:10 
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r11co wrote:
Oooops!

The irony is the button Lewis pressed on the steering wheel is the same one that prevented him from stalling the car when he slid off into the gravel at the European Grand Prix thus allowing him to be legally lifted back on to the track and continue racing without being disqualified for getting a push-start.

Or not. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:33 
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Icandoit wrote:
Or not. :roll:


That'll be the same people who away back in July said that no McLaren employees other than Mike Coughlin were privy to the information contained in the leaked Ferrari document?! I'm not saying they are telling fibs, just that there is a precedent for McLaren spokespersons to comment on things when they are not in possession of the full facts.

Yet.....

The really sad thing about this denial is that it is obvious from the in-car footage that he did inadvertently press the 'N' button on his steering wheel ('N' meaning neutral, which also enables the anti-stall and anti-engine detonation systems which disable both the auto-clutch and accelerator until the driver 're-sets' the gearbox and selects first).

This not being the case then I expect Chris Balfe of PitPass to be getting a libel suit.


Last edited by r11co on Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:42, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:41 
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r11co wrote:
That'll be the same people who away back in July said that no McLaren employees other than Mike Coughlin were privy to the information contained in the leaked Ferrari document?! :lol:

Why would that not have been true when they said it? It now looks as if some Spanish McLaren drivers were not telling the whole truth about it at the time.
r11co wrote:
The really sad thing about this denial is that it is obvious from the in-car footage that he did inadvertently press the 'N' button on his steering wheel ('N' meaning neutral, which also enables the anti-stall and anti-engine detonation systems which disable both the auto-clutch and accelerator until the driver 're-sets' the gearbox and selects first).

I'm amazed that you apparently know all about the secrets of how the McLaren steering wheel operates and without a link showing what you suggest that is really a lot of hot air.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:47 
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Icandoit wrote:
I'm amazed that you apparently know all about the secrets of how the McLaren steering wheel operates and without a link showing what you suggest that is really a lot of hot air.


It is no secret. Martin Brundle has explained on several occasions as part of his ITV commentary exactly how the anti-stall system works. He's driven several different F1 cars in recent years (a 2007 Williams Toyota, 2006 BMW Sauber, 2006 Red Bull Ferrari, 2006 Super Aguri Honda) so he isn't talking from distant memory.

Oh, and the link to PitPass should be enough for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:32 
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r11co wrote:
It is no secret. Martin Brundle has explained on several occasions as part of his ITV commentary exactly how the anti-stall system works. He's driven several different F1 cars in recent years (a 2007 Williams Toyota, 2006 BMW Sauber, 2006 Red Bull Ferrari, 2006 Super Aguri Honda) so he isn't talking from distant memory.

I'm sure everything Martin Brundle tells viewers on a TV programme is not enough for you to make a pronouncement on the 'irony' of Hamilton's incident.
r11co wrote:
Oh, and the link to PitPass should be enough for you.

It tells me nothing other than unsubstantiated conjecture - you are the one who has suggested that from the footage it is obvious 'that he did inadvertently press the 'N' button on his steering' :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:00 
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Icandoit wrote:
It tells me nothing other than unsubstantiated conjecture - you are the one who has suggested that from the footage it is obvious 'that he did inadvertently press the 'N' button on his steering' :roll:


Yeah, whatever :roll:

The thread in PitPass even references the exact point in the race footage where you can see the 'button press' take place. I saw it. Several other people in that thread also claim to have seen it. I don't have a copy of it to send to you, but I don't need to convince you to prove it as there are enough witnesses (several million) to pool from that could constitute legal evidence if required.

Chris Balfe, editor of PitPass and F1 journalist of repute, also backs the claim and names Lewis Hamilton as the initial source of the information. Chris doesn't state things so categorically in his forum or on his site unless he knows they are true and, if required to do so, can be proved. His reputation and career (and ability to avoid legal action) depend on it.

Stay in denial if you want.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:25 
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r11co wrote:
The thread in PitPass even references the exact point in the race footage where you can see the 'button press' take place.

Does it? Where?
Quote:
Our source claims that Hamilton caused his gearbox to fail by touching the wrong button (the Start button). As a result he had to reload the system/software. Earlier in the race, another mistake saw the Englishman go wide, losing several positions, as he attempted to make up for a poor start.

r11co wrote:
I saw it. Several other people in that thread also claim to have seen it. I don't have a copy of it to send to you, but I don't need to convince you to prove it as there are enough witnesses (several million) to pool from that could constitute legal evidence if required.

Aren't you amazed that Martin Brundle didn't say anything when it happened then? After all, if you are to be believed, he knows all about the steering wheels and button presses needed to reset the gearboxes in McLarens.
r11co wrote:
Chris Balfe, editor of PitPass and F1 journalist of repute, also backs the claim and names Lewis Hamilton as the initial source of the information. Chris doesn't state things so categorically in his forum or on his site unless he knows they are true and, if required to do so, can be proved. His reputation and career (and ability to avoid legal action) depend on it.

That why is it titled 'Exclusive: Did Hamilton press the wrong button?' then? Hardly a 'categoric' claim is it? :roll:
r11co wrote:
Stay in denial if you want.

No denial at all, just want to see the proof that you claim exists to show that Hamilton caused the gearbox problem


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:36 
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Icandoit wrote:
r11co wrote:
The thread in PitPass even references the exact point in the race footage where you can see the 'button press' take place.

Does it? Where?


http://www.pitpass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6312&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=32


Quote:
just want to see the proof that you claim exists to show that Hamilton caused the gearbox problem


http://www.pitpass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6312&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=28

I'll say it for a third time. Chris Balfe does not publish something so categorically on his site unless he knows that, when legally challenged, he can back it up. That includes his own forum posts (which is why he is clearly identified as 'editor' and administrator, which places greater legal obligations on him).

Earlier in the year PitPass published some articles that were very critical of the Honda F1 team management and highlighted some major errors in the development of the 2007 car. Their source was an insider going by the name of Helios. Honda raised objections and made some threats about legal action, but backed down as nothing said in the articles was untrue.

PitPass's integrity is beyond reproach. If you have problems accepting what they are saying then please take it up with them!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 13:10 
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r11co wrote:
Icandoit wrote:
r11co wrote:
The thread in PitPass even references the exact point in the race footage where you can see the 'button press' take place.

Does it? Where?

http://www.pitpass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6312&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=32

Not in the link you had already posted then? :roll:

Still there is no actual footage of the event and it seems there are several posters on that thread are just as doubtful of this 'explanation' without any proof.
r11co wrote:
Icandoit wrote:
just want to see the proof that you claim exists to show that Hamilton caused the gearbox problem

http://www.pitpass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6312&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=28

Nope. It does not show anything of the sort. It suggest looking at some footage that I don't have and nor does it appear that has anyone else posted a link to a YouTube (or similar) clip.
r11co wrote:
I'll say it for a third time. Chris Balfe does not publish something so categorically on his site unless he knows that, when legally challenged, he can back it up.

Earlier in the year PitPass published some articles that were very critical of the Honda F1 team management and highlighted some major errors in the development of the 2007 car. Their source was an insider going by the name of Helios. Honda raised objections and made some threats about legal action, but backed down as nothing said in the articles was untrue.

PitPass's integrity is beyond reproach. If you have problems accepting what they are saying then please take it up with them!

I've not said that at all. It is you who are the one claiming that they are saying something that they are not.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 16:22 
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Quote:
London, Eng-er-land. - Scientists at the Institute of Physical Jerks in Norway believe they have isolated the rogue genetic sequence that causes British athletes to consistently blunder at important sports events.

The chromosome, provisionally named Henman 27, is part of an aggressive genetic code that has been the scourge of the British since the Wars of the Roses. The scientists consider that the chromosome is probably French in origin.

Although the Institute claim that the general public in the UK should not be alarmed, they do wish to illustrate that everyone is a carrier of the chromosome in some form. Professor Lars Magnussonsun me that the full-blown symptoms of "representing the UK in any competitive field" and "talking a good one and yet totally bottling it at a vital moment," are on the increase but still relatively rare.

The minor symptoms of Henman 27 are easier to identify. In the "carrier" phase, the victim will show signs of severe delusion and become painfully opinionated. Borderline racist patriotism and verbal diarrhoea quickly follow. Several days of disappointment and depression are not uncommon but afterwards recovery tends to be swift. The more severe indications of this genetic problem are not exclusive to sportsmen and women. Politicians, businessmen, high profile royals and estate agents are all known to suffer its curse.

This information comes at a particularly tender time in the British sporting calendar. England's demise at the Euro 2008 qualifying stages upset many ardent fans, and the England rugby XV's valiant but ultimately futile attempts at victory has left tears rolling down the supporter's puffy, painted faces.

On a more positive note, this UK contributor to TheSpoof.com would like to wish Lewis Hamilton the best of luck for his performance at the Brazilian Grand Prix today. He's a lovely lad but my money is on Alonso

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 06:47 
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Icandoit wrote:
r11co wrote:
Icandoit wrote:
r11co wrote:
The thread in PitPass even references the exact point in the race footage where you can see the 'button press' take place.

Does it? Where?

http://www.pitpass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6312&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=32

Not in the link you had already posted then? :roll:


You are making a twit of yourself here. All the links I posted are to the same thread in the Pitpass forum. Because you weren't bothering to actually read it all I decided to add links directly to the pertinent posts. If you won't actually take the time to avail yourself of the information then don't be surprised if I think you are deliberately blinding yourself to it.

Icandoit wrote:
I've not said that at all. It is you who are the one claiming that they are saying something that they are not.


Now you are just arguing black is white. Here is exactly what they are saying (for the benefit of those who didn't read it in the thread linked above)..

Chris Balfe, Editor - Pitpass wrote:
It was Lewis who told our source, so straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Basically, he said that his "finger slipped".

That said, McLaren insist it wasn't his fault but a "technical problem".

We haven't named Lewis on the site because McLaren has enough problems.

Fact is, I got the call yesterday afternoon telling me what had happened and who had admitted it (Lewis).


I repeat once more... a journalist has gone on record and staked his editorial reputation on his statement that Lewis Hamilton admitted he caused his slowdown in the race by pressing the wrong button on the steering wheel. Now, when the writs fly from the McLaren team and they look like winning their case then I might accept your point of view.

In the mean time PitPass's information holds far more sway than your blinded opinion (which you are entitled to, of course, but are upholding in a most embarrassingly narrow-minded manner :shock:)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 07:20 
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r11co wrote:
You are making a twit of yourself here. All the links I posted are to the same thread in the Pitpass forum. Because you weren't bothering to actually read it all I decided to add links directly to the pertinent posts. If you won't actually take the time to avail yourself of the information then don't be surprised if I think you are deliberately blinding yourself to it.

The only twit is you as the only link you had posted ('Oooops!') lead to a news item and NOT the forum thread. :roll:
r11co wrote:
I repeat once more... a journalist has gone on record and staked his editorial reputation on his statement that Lewis Hamilton admitted he caused his slowdown in the race by pressing the wrong button on the steering wheel. Now, when the writs fly from the McLaren team and they look like winning their case then I might accept your point of view.

An unnamed source has made an allegation that some people are willing to accept simply because they want to. Not because they have any evidence as there is no other evidence on film, or from McLaren, or Hamilton whatsoever.
r11co wrote:
In the mean time PitPass's information holds far more sway than your blinded opinion (which you are entitled to, of course, but are upholding in a most embarrassingly narrow-minded manner :shock:)

I have no opinion other that I am better than to blindly 'believe' some unattributed source on a website. It may well turn out to have some value - but what is written so far is simply hearsay.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 09:04 
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Icandoit wrote:
The only twit is you as the only link you had posted ('Oooops!') lead to a news item and NOT the forum thread. :roll:


Here's a link for you (hint - click the blue text that says 'PitPass' at the bottom of the post, or was that too subtle for you?

Quote:
I have no opinion other that I am better than to blindly 'believe' some unattributed source on a website. It may well turn out to have some value - but what is written so far is simply hearsay.


No. What is written is actionable under libel laws if it can be proven to be untrue. Journalists understand that point far better than you do and Mr. Balfe is not going to risk the reputation of his site and his commercial interests by stating as "fact" something you are refusing to accept.

As I said before, if legal action is taken and the comment is withdrawn your viewpoint may then have some merit.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 09:40 
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r11co wrote:
Icandoit wrote:
The only twit is you as the only link you had posted ('Oooops!') lead to a news item and NOT the forum thread. :roll:


Here's a link for you (hint - click the blue text that says 'PitPass' at the bottom of the post, or was that too subtle for you?

Is that your 'Oooops!' post?

No. :roll:
r11co wrote:
Icandoit wrote:
I have no opinion other that I am better than to blindly 'believe' some unattributed source on a website. It may well turn out to have some value - but what is written so far is simply hearsay.

No. What is written is actionable under libel laws if it can be proven to be untrue. Journalists understand that point far better than you do and Mr. Balfe is not going to risk the reputation of his site and his commercial interests by stating as "fact" something you are refusing to accept.

As I said before, if legal action is taken and the comment is withdrawn your viewpoint may then have some merit.

You can carry on in your uncritical belief that an unattributed source is somehow 'correct' and a press release from McLaren isn't worth anything. You can carry on believing that you actually saw Hamilton ' press the button' that caused his 'gearbox' failure. You can even believe that you actually know what button sequences a McLaren driver needs to press in order to do whatever 'resetting' that was needed from an item on an ITV programme.

But you a placing way too much emphasis on an anonymous piece on a marginal internet website and fabrication other 'evedence' from your own limited imagination for anyone with any critical facilities to take seriously.

Please, have the last word. I'm sure you can make it especially inane.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:26 
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Icandoit wrote:
But you a placing way too much emphasis on an anonymous piece on a marginal internet website and fabrication other 'evedence' from your own limited imagination for anyone with any critical facilities to take seriously.


Bob Costanduros is a regular contributor to that 'marginal website' you refer to. If you can't interpret Bob's CV from the link I have just given to you let me make it easier for you.

You know that voice you hear off camera asking the podium-finishing drivers questions in the official FIA press conference after each race? That's Bob :wink:

I think the appropriate saying is 'when you are in a hole.......'


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:28 
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r11co wrote:
As I said before, if legal action is taken and the comment is withdrawn your viewpoint may then have some merit.


I'm not taking sides on the issue of what caused the failure, but in my opinion this type of discussion could never be subject to legal action since it does not meet the legal standard of defamation, so this is not a way to test its accuracy.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:22 
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Zamzara wrote:
I'm not taking sides on the issue of what caused the failure, but in my opinion this type of discussion could never be subject to legal action since it does not meet the legal standard of defamation, so this is not a way to test its accuracy.


This is blasting completely off topic now...

Wikipedia wrote:
English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual or individuals in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.


I'm not saying that proves this case, but by the above definition I don't think it is as clear-cut as you make out. The McLaren team clearly believed that even the possibility that there were people thinking that Lewis Hamilton was the cause of his own downfall was damaging enough to justify issuing a formal denial.

OK, so ultimately this comes down to who you believe, and who has the most to lose from which version of events you choose to believe (notwithstanding the actual race footage, of course!! :lol: )


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 Post subject: Oooops!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 15:30 
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Can't resist.
Quote:
Hamilton wrongly quoted on gearbox failure

By Biranit Goren
Thursday, October 25th 2007, 13:35 GMT

A leading Formula One journalist has apologised to McLaren for a quote wrongly attributed to Lewis Hamilton, autosport.com has learned.

Hamilton was quoted by Montreal's newspaper La Presse as admitting he himself caused the gearbox problem, which saw him drop from sixth to 18th at the early stages of the Brazilian Grand Prix on Sunday.

Veteran Formula One journalist Luc Domenjoz' report from the event included a direct quote from Hamilton himself, saying he had pressed the wrong button by mistake on his steering wheel, putting the car into neutral.

The report was immediately quoted by numerous Internet websites and was seen as proof that Hamilton cracked under the pressure of the world championship finale.

However, Domenjoz yesterday admitted that he did not talk to Hamilton and explained that he relied on information he heard in conversation with other journalists, who in turn were quoting what Hamilton had supposedly said to his engineers.

The highly respected Frenchman further explained that he was under deadline constraints and did not have a chance to verify the information with Hamilton himself or with McLaren.

When approached by autosport.com, Domenjoz said: "my mistake was using a quote by Lewis when I did not talk to him myself. I had other verifiable information and I stand by my report, but under the time pressure I made a mistake by using that quote."

The incident comes on the back of ongoing criticism by McLaren team boss Ron Dennis for the damage the Internet medium is causing to media coverage.

"I have said so often, the Internet has been the bane of our lives," he said at Interlagos last weekend. "This is an uncontrolled, unedited, source of information that is fed into the media.

"Of course, I am not critical at all of the media. It just makes it so hard because everything is so instantaneous. You are just spending too much time trying to correct the inaccuracies that come into the system."

Is this mentioned on another marginal internet website yet? Not as far as I can see......

From here - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63645


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