Safe Speed Forums

Was it?

If it was then I'd advise being even MORE careful when pulling out.

Certainly pulling out if a car in front turning left is blocking your view is an incredibly stupid thing to do (sadly, I see it often).



Hmmm.... It's never pitch black.

Don't get me wrong, I often tell lightless cyclists to "Get some lights" (when I'm on my bike, in the car or on foot), but at the same time I like to think I drive well enough not to strike them.

You can suggest what you like - as long as you can tell me how to get my headlights to shine sideways to illuminate a dickhead on a bike with no lights in an area with no streetlights.

The eye is not a photon counter (although it can get close in certain conditions [48 hours without any light], but the brain is good at automatically filtering out what it thinks could be low level noise).

A bright light in one part of the retina (such as headlamps) will be enough to drop dark-shifted sensitivity - of the whole retina (not just the illuminated part of it), quite substantially, for quite a few minutes.

Pitch back is not required!


Of course all road users have to be careful, no doubt; even more importantly, all road users have to be predictable to others.

Oh, believe me it is here. I just looked out of the window to check. It's cloudy so there is no moonlight and there are no streetlights. I can see absolutely nothing. If you live anywhere near a large town there may be enough skyglow to see by, but I don't which is why it's great for astronomy (when it's not cloudy).

And even more importantly one shouldn't assume that other road users are going to behave in a predictable manner.

Reasonable unpredictable behaviour can be extrapolated if the person can be seen. If they can't be seen then no reasonable prediction can be made.
It is impossible to mitigate for each and every potential unseen hazard.

Yes, but remember when Zamzara wrote,

"The answer to this apparent paradox is that if the cyclist has no lights, you might well see them but it will likely be only just in time when you are very close (and sometimes it will be too late). "

Travelling at a speed at night where you only see an unlit object in front of you after its too late to not hit it (or go off the road trying to avoid it) is plainly stupid.

Cyclists who go on the road at night without lights are plainly stupid, but that soesn't make drivers who drive like this (e.g. Zamzara) not stupid.

Need all drivers/cyclists/runners travel at no more than 5mph past driveways/doors/entrances, even past parked cars, in case someone darts out? A line has to be drawn somewhere.

I drive at a safe seed for the conditions at all times, and would never be surprised by a stationary object. But a moving object always has the potential to be a surprise if it moves into your path, and if it's unlit it won't be picked up in peripheral vision.

Nothing I said could give you cause to infer that I drive "like" anything, that's your own imagination at work.

True to a point, but when said unlit object is capable of fairly rapid and near silent independent motion which could result in your safe stopping distance being reduced without your knowledge (i.e. you're travelling slowly enough to be able to stop if a stationary obstruction came into view, but not if the obstruction were heading towards you at 15-20mph, or suddenly cutting across your path from a side road) then just how slow would you suggest is slow enough? Smeggy suggests no more than 5mph, but even 1mph might be too fast to avoid the collision if the cyclist cuts across your path at the wrong moment... The only way to guarantee that you won't drive into anyone/thing else is simply not to drive at all, any speed other than 0 brings with it some risk.

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Chris

Ah, but with experience you can predict if someone is likely to be unpredictable

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Sorry Zamora, but I reckon 99 time out of 100 if you encounter a cyclist that you might hit then they will be cycling away from you on your side of the road.

Its in this scenario that I was imagining you said you "might well see them but it will likely be only just in time when you are very close (and sometimes it will be too late). "

In that situation, with the results you described, you would plainly be travelling too fast for the conditions.

We're not worried about that 99, it's the 1 that's the problem.


How?
The last few posts above explain why that isn't the case.

If it was a large stationary object, that is indeed correct, but I don't see any relevance here. Everyone moving on the road needs to take care of their own safety and not rely 100% on others. The answer to every single problem is not "you were driving/cycling/walking too fast".

Last night at around 6:30pm the wife and I were nearly hit by a cyclist with no lights. We were looking streight at him and did not see him. We were obviously traveling too fast for the conditions.

On a unlit foot path at walking speed

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Exactly! Although that seems to be the accepted belief these days.


Why is my Troll detector flashing at me?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

well you should have had lighhts on so he could see you then
you can't expect him to avoid an invisible obstacle

Or a spike sticking out of your chest bud. (like having one on the steering wheel verses air bag analogy)

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I think this is part of the general principle now which some people adopt of
"the more light the better." Just look at the number of cars whose drivers switch on headlights, fog lights, and every auxiliary light they have as soon as the sun goes behind a cloud. Too much light is just dazzling for everybody else.

This principle is even enshrined in the wiring I've seen on some modern cars, where you can't turn on fog lights without low-beam headlights as well. Sometimes in thick fog it's much better to switch off your normal headlights and just use the fog lights.

Now we have groups calling for mandatory daytime running lights and/or compulsory use of headlights on all vehicles at all times, as in some other countries. That will just make things even worse, by effectively masking pedestrians and cyclists to a greater degree.

http://www.lightsout.org/

http://www.dadrl.org.uk/

What you need then is a good contrast. If I'm bright and everything else is bright it's going to be like trying to see a while cat in a snow storm. So I need to be dressed black in daylight and naked at night for maximum safety.

Actually, calling on my experience from work, for people with poor vision the best contrast for reading is yellow on black or vise versa. Just thought I'd throw that in.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.