Safe Speed Forums

A while agao I decided to look at Safe Speed to see what it is all about. At the time I was a frequent visitor of the Cycling + forum, as I am a very keen cyclist. I became a little disenchanted with some of the abusive, and quite frankly pathetic characters there, and I now find myself more and more agreeing, with Safe Speed, and find the reasoned and calm discussions here far more civilised. If you are serious about road safety, Safe Speed is the best place to be.
Here is an example of a new Cycling + topic called Cameras, drivers, dicuss speeding.

Now Paul, I know you would like everyone to work together on road safety, but you have a hell of a battle on your hands. I believe these 2 extracts show some of the characters to be what they trully are. Draw your own conclusions.



Cat among the pigeons??
Are motorised drivers just very stupid or just inobservant?

Cameras everywhere, BIG signs with 30/40/50 etc… on them, speedometers fitted to vehicles (and brakes if you can’t see ahead what’s going on!!). I’m an ardent all weather cyclist. I hate 4x4 drivers because of the occasions that I’ve nearly been trashed just going in a straight line. It was not a Taxi, 3 Series BMW, White Van man or a Volvo but a Stupid Urban Vehicle. Big IF but if I get up they will seriously regret it from whatever comes to hand. I digress, cyclist/very occasional car user and biker.

My new Honda Fireblade will accelerate at near light speed with a top end of very irresponsible speeds yet is easy enough for a five year old to limit to 30/40/50. Now, I wasn’t a fighter pilot in my youth but why can I control a hugely ballistic land based missile yet so many ’drivers’ can’t? ‘It’s too fast’, ‘The engine is too big’. It’s not rocket science!

Cameras are here to stay, it’s simply a Tax on ineptitude, incompetence, lack of awareness, crap driving and crass stupidity. SH.T man they are bright fu…ing yellow!!!!! The Government is laughing all the way to the bank.

Am I anti-car? Yes, I hate them with a passion, probably because I can leave mine in the drive unworshipped for weeks at a time and get by without it.

BUT YOU CAR ADDICTS ARE GOING TO GET CLOBBERD BY ’NEW’ LABOUR. As sure as night follows day car drivers will pay - hooray!! Get a bike loser!?!

Sorry, rant over.

Can’t wait for a response from the ’Safespeed’ idiots that think they own the roads, ****ers. Pedal power.






SHUT THE F**K UP ABOUT F**CKING SPEED CAMERAS AND F**KING IDIOTS WHO ALWAYS MOAN ABOUT F**KING SPEED CAMERAS BECAUSE THEY F**KING CANNOT DRIVE AND SHOULDN'T BE BEHIND THE S**TING WHEEL OF A DANGEROUS HULK OF P**SING METAL.

F**K OFF TO THAT F**KING LOSER SITE ARSE TOTING S**TSPEED, SORRY I MEANT SILLYSPEED, SORRY CAVEMANSPEED, SORRY SADSPEED, OR WHATEVER IT IS CALLED SO THAT PEOPLE CAN MOAN ABOUT THEM THERE!

SPEED CAMERA DISCUSSION IS GETTING F**KING BORING SO F88K OFF!!!!!

And relax.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

I assume those 2 posters would be in favour of speed cameras for bikes then, set at 10mph.

And what were the moderators doing while all this was going on...

The best thing these guys did is to slag us off. It gets others like you to look us up and decide for yourself....We have picked a few good guys up from C+. Maybe a few trolls as well but then trolls never last long.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Thanks for your kind and encouraging comments.

I blame the government - bad policy has tended to set road user groups against one another. If the government had continuously been making the point that everyone had a fundamental individual responsibility for their own safety it wouldn't have come to this (or at least it wouldn't have become so widespread).

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Cheers Neil - that's why I post on here. You can have reasoned debate and it's relaxing. Hopefully - we can pass on some serious safety tips as well without being all "offishull"!


As for C+

Well, it's no secret a little tame pussy cat on there is related to me. My cousin! She's a keen cyclist as well - but even her patience has been tried by one or two daft and inconsiderate cyclists. When her husband decided to join in - this really surprised me - but it seems he had a"Gatsobait" type incident - and was "proper livid about it!" He was also incensed by reading the comments back to his wife as well - so he joined in for a while. He has come to "medical and clinical" conclusion that commuting to work by bicycle in urban areas makes one more liable to road rage than a car driver. He's now recommending the gym as source of "gentle exercise" to his patients - apparently!

Like Gatsobait - he was waiting at a junction of an A road to turn left into another A road. He was stationary when a cyclist turns left into the road where he was stationary - waiting his turn - lights on dip and indicator on. Cyclist came around the corner at speed - and had neither observed nor anticipated the parked car as he entered the road nor the person crossing the road. Cyclist unfortunately "lost it" and skidded sideways into FF's car

. (* He was going to call himself "Frenzied Feline" - but we already have one of those somewhere so he is a "Feral" one! He thought Psycho Puss might not go down too well on C+ as Kriss discovered, that, whilst the above bit of sweariing is OK - "pussy cat" isn't! )



Anyway - guy hits FF's car and takes out his wing mirror and does a fair bit of paintwork and other damage to the car. FF (man of great calmness) tries to get his name and address. Cyclist refuses to give it, shouts abuse at him , kicks the car, and unfortunately, the mountain bike is rideable and undamaged. He did not have any lights either. Cyclist aims at kick at my cousin's husband, misses, but hits the car again before riding off - screaming that FF can go ***** himself.

Our guy is shocked by the whole incident and even more shocked when he finds out how much it cost to fix as well. He has protected no claims - but that's not the point - bloke causes damage to someone eles's property, verbally assaults him and take no responsibilty for his actions on a public highway.


FF has reported it and he took photos of the guy via his mobile phone at the time - which have come out reasonably well under the circumstances - but doubtful any one can do anything - yet again! But you never know - scrote may have form or do something daft in the future.

FF rides a bicycle himself, has occasionally looked at the cycling sites for gear and so on - but never visited the fora until Kriss stuck her claws in.
He posted the incident on the site and someone told him he deserved this for driving a car which was expensive to fix - but not phrased in polite terms.

He is not very impressed by the "cyclists" on there at all - he now reckons they are "accidents waiting to happen" and he was relieved to discover none apparently live near him - and has now gone back to his sports car playground where he can have civilised gentlemanly chats and talk car engines and car parts for classics...

Have taken a look at the goings on - good job actual identities are hidden from public on that forum - cos some of that stuff would land those idiots in court if said under any other media as they are offensive and probably libellous. As Gizmo has pointed out - mods seem very dopey. Most of the stuff would have been locked and closed on other sites - and folks would be sin-binned or banned for such behaviour.


They are not at all interested ion road safety either. Base this opinion on one of Kriss's postings on the "killer drivers" thread. She pointed them in the direction of mahali's petition for tough sentences - which is on this site. They claim they want to lock drivers up - but because the petition is on this site - they are not going to "because it gives credibility to safespeed"

Think that particular post by one person (who did briefly troll on here - made about 4 posts and disappeared) does rather confirm that this particular breed's gripes are not about cyclist danger but pathological hatred of people who won and drive cars.


Aware this post may fan flames all the more - Paul - and sincerely hope our new members from C+ are not overly offended by my criticism of the site and am no way including them in this criticism. But I would like our other more petty lurkers from C+ to realise that they are hindering rather than helping road safety by such abusive behaviour - and such attitudes is not going to encourage people to cycle more and drive less.

Think people will read the two sites and form their own opinions in any case. Those particular individuals on there are really doing themselves no favours. Sad really!

I think Paul has made the most fundamental point of all in his post above. It is the individual responsibility of everyone to look after the safety of themselves and others.

The HSE's own publications for workplaces contain this guidance which, however, seems lost within the Government's current road safety thinking which wants to blame drivers for everything.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I don't necessarily agree that the government wants to blame motorists for everything, but certainly they (we) are the group who are easily identifed and targetable.
The problem highlighted by In-Gear above (the cyclist who damaged someones car and then rode off) is a societal one. We have a blight of irresponsible, not to say vile, behaviour in this country, that is unlikely to be addressed by a 30 second TV commercial. Modifying the behaviour of vehicle drivers is potentially achievable within a reasonable timeframe; undoing the corrosion in attitudes that has led to the deplorable behaviour we frequently witness and experience is not quite so easy. However, I believe we have to make a start.

Well, what can I say! Interesting posts in this particular thread.

I suspect all of the aggression, arguing etc... is not really down to what the posters are saying, but more due to a clash of personalities. Both the camps on C+ have valid points to make, and here's the important bit, NEITHER wants to give any ground.

The trick is, as in any form of media, to pick out the sensible bits and try (it is difficult) to ignore the useless stuff.

I think it is a sad sign of the times we live in, that things have deteriorated this far. It seems more and more, that people are only out for number 1, and this reflects more than ever on the roads. It may just be my imagination, but the current generation of 16 - 25 year olds seem to have this selfish streak running right through them (it would not be fair to say this applies to all of them). On the roads this is easily reflected in the amount of times I have to speak to this age group about their driving, compared to the over 30's.

I look at these comments on C+, and wonder where people like this get their ideas from. They may not like cars, but they should respect the fact that some people actually need them in order to have any kind of life.
I suppose these people would see me use my road bike to peddle down to the out of town supermarket, and peddle back with the weeks food for my familly of 4

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that there should be a psychological test for ALL road users.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

I wonder about this too - if their objection to the car is it's environmental impact on the world, then would they be happy if their house was burning down and the fire brigade took half an hour to arrive because they'd reverted back to using horse-drawn fire engines, and then couldn't put out the fire anyway because their hand-pumped hoses weren't powerful enough to reach the flames? That nasty noisy particulate spewing diesel engine in a modern fire engine might cause a bit of pollution, but it's a genuine lifesaver...

On the other hand, if their objection is that the car is a mode of private transport rather than a public one, then why don't they go around similarly attacking other cyclists who own their own bikes - some of which are worth more than a second hand car! A quick google for mountain bike prices was something of an eye-opener - especially the price of upgrade parts. 400 quid for front suspension forks, that's more that I paid to get the front suspension fixed on my Omega


Why can't we all just get along? I'm a private car driver. I'm a bus pasenger. I'm a pedestrian. I used to be a cyclist. The goods I buy are brought to the shops, or delivered to my front door, in vans and trucks. Whether I'm behind the wheel of my car, sat on the bus, walking along the pavement, or sat at my PC doing some online shopping, I'm a road user. We're ALL road users one way or another, we shouldn't be at each others throats, arguing over who's got more right to use the roads than anyone else.

Hear hear, twister plays the pipes of peace Picking up on what you said, cyclists bikes are delivers by trucks How do they think their bikes get from abroad and to the shops! And you're right bikes can be expensive, my road bike is worth £2,000, and thats not the most expensive by far ie Trek SSL comes in at about £6,000

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

I think a point that PeterE made some time ago is important.

Some of the folk at C+ are arguing about transport ideology. They think "car are responsible for bringing danger to the streets" and they object on ideological grounds.

We're mostly talking about road safety - how best to use the transport systems we have. The difference in terms of reference lead many to believe that the "other side's" position cannot possibly be correct.

From an ideological perspective it isn't unreasonable to hold cars responsible for causing danger. From a road safety perspective it's highly dangerous to move safety responsibilities to someone else.

The thing I REALLY can't understand is why they insist on taking an oversimplified view of road safety matters. It may be because we've always been able to trust official road safety messages in the past and folk are in the habit of accepting the government's position.

Then there are a few highly opinionated and frankly obnoxious individuals fanning the flames. Give it a stir and what do you get? Cycling Plus.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Before cars we had horses and carriages which, as I understand it, resulted in far more deaths and injuries on the roads than cars do - at least, within towns and cities.

But without private cars, we'd still have buses, taxis and ...bicycles - so there would still be danger.

Regards
Peter

That's true, and I agree.

But (playing devil's advocate) the logic is that fewer cars mean less danger. That's a fair-enough ideological position and one that I can respect even though I disagree that anything useful would be achieved.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I don't really contribute that much to the debates on this site (more of an observer ) but can I butt in and say to all it would be best to ignore these C+ and T2000 sites because it just stirs up hatred and wastes an awful lot of time. They are the polar opposite of most contributors here and 'them and us' will never get on-no offence but it is just petty name calling really and to see who can have the last laugh and absolutely nothing to do with constructive debate about genuine improvments to the safety of all our road users. I used to adorn these sites myself and try and get my oar in to their debates and likewise with them to this site but have put that all behind me now-I'm interested in the Safespeed argument so will stick with this site and no other.

Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

Aye - they're not cheap. My own road bike cost similar and the rest of the family (each one) all ride the same type of bicycle. In addition - we all purchased a make of bicycle lamp (Lupine Edisons). These cost over £600 and we all paid the extra for the helmet mounts as well. Light is damned good though - 50% more light than any other make and has a remote control and a dip facility as well. They run over almost 10 hours as well. The kids in the family have slightly cheaper ones - , CatEye ABS, Fireballs and Lumicycles - all costing £150-£300.

So it ain't cheap if you are an enthusiast and pro-safety.

Can recommend all the above for throwing out a light which helps you see the road ahead and be seen - very easily -by other road users

Bl**dy Hell, you lot are loaded!

£600 on a set of Edison Lupines, that's more than my either of my bikes cost! I get by on a set of CatEye RC230s (20 watts for about an hours burn time), they're a bit poor in comparison, but then for £50 what can you expect?!

Sometimes I do wonder whether it'd be cheaper to own a car...

[Yorkshireman mode]
Luxury!

We used to 'ave to mek do wi' an 'owd candle fer't front and a fag end fer't back, and we were't lucky ones!

But you try tellin' that to't cyclists o'today and they'll not believe you...
[/Yorkshireman mode]

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Peyote mate - you know as well as we do that there are some highly obnoxious folks on that site - and they would be dangerous if they drive or cycle in the angry way they come across on there. I have to say that if my lads cop anyone riding on pavements, cycling dangerously and without lights - we fine and there is no discretion for lights - but may show some for pavement issues dependent on the nature and circumstance of the pavement offence. My lads are not in the business of favouring one type of road user - and on aggregate, more cars and so more drivers get punished for some offence or other.

On here - we get "trolls" and we answer them with reason and normally without abuse - but the Mad Doc and myself do mess with names a bit in a bid to make the "troll" laugh and lighten up a bit. Should they become abusive or post absolute nonsense as was the case with or "closet speeder" whose posts were just pure wind- up (House prices increase as road humps are desireable selling point - indeed! For example!) - then little point debating road safety, driving or cycling with this type of poster - which is why Paul eventually lost patience.

But, on that cycling site - motoring threads are fine - so long as everyone agrees that cars and car drivers are "out to kill cyclists" and that scams and talivans are the only means of road safety. Not so - and my cousin simply pointed out the contra-argument to each issue raised - and somehow gets accused of making racist and anti-religious comments - and other abusive language.

I have in fact read the Fairly Tame Feline pair's responses on that site (and it took me ages!). No evidence of any racism or anything else on their part - but a lot of evidence of stuff that, if they had been daft enough to give their own identities in the profiles, they may well have been talking to those moderators with their lawyers present and with a view to action given some of the pure spite, bitterness and abuse - which would be libel if actual identities had ben given there. I mention this just as friendly warning to the lurkers from that site that they are indeed on dicey grounds here. As it is - people who know them professionally may even guess they are the people behind the log-in names in any case - and would be their character witnesses in a court of law.

As for their impression of commuter cyclists - they are now highly suspicious and aware that they may have an unpleasant personality, and most of our circle of pals (including my own colleagues) who have looked and read the rants on the site are now less inclined to use a bicycle for a dailly commute.

Thus - the people concerned are their own worst enemies in the whole argument.

Well - they work hard for their loot - as do I! But there's your proof that they pay BiBs, medics and vets far too much money! But we spend it wisely! On fast cars and fast bikes!