Safe Speed Forums

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story ... 56,00.html

Shock, horror

He's actually in favour of new development - i.e. building three million new homes. Article concludes:


Now how long before he says:




And of course three million new houses will need a lot of transport infrastructure to support them unless their occupants are going to be doleites or handloom weavers.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Just about sums him up


fatboytim

They won't be homes though, will they? They will be flats.

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Andrew.

They'll just be built without parking spaces, then the only people that will buy them will be car-less.

They tried that in Poole, they called the scam "eco-homes". This means shoddy flats with parking restrictions built-in. It's a horrible place. Used to be a nice open field. Now there's no view.
There are some parking places which you have to pay the council for, but nowhere near enough. Apparently the people who live there have cars, or have friends who have cars. Of course now the council can "enforce" the problem they have created in order to make money.

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Andrew.

3 million new homes. When they can't sell the homes they are already building?

Oh. Right. OK Mr Monbiot. Thanks. I think.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

It all helps to destroy England, therefore Moonbat's in favour of it. Simple.

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Save a cow - eat a vegetarian

He was on R4 this morning opposing a report that we need more roadbuilding. He was advancing the theory that we need more intensive use of rail and more buses to get cars of the road.

Back in the real world, the fact is that neither of these run past my door on a wet day.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

True, but better bus and train services WOULD reduce my car use. I'm about to drive to Leeds from Stafford - not a fun journey but quicker and cheaper than going by train. A faster, more convenient and pleasant train service might have dissuaded me, as I do not need the car once I get there.

No defending Monbiot, but I DO support public transport as a concept

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Likewise. I wish more of the people who get involved in the private vs public transport debate/argument/holy war would just take a step back and consider the possibility that the two can - indeed must - co-exist quite happily to form the national transport system. I have no time for the greenies who think anyone who says they need their own car just isn't trying hard enough, but equally I have no time for those motorists who write off public transport as being a generally useless waste of resources, rather than conceding that, even if they personally have no intention of ever letting anyone else do the driving, there are millions of people out there who do find public transport meets some/all of their meeds.

As for the one they call Monbiot... that's the first time I've heard him in a debate, and now I see what people mean about his style. I think the bit that most stood out for me was him asking the other chap to let him finish the point he was making, only to then start talking over the point the other guy was subsequently trying to make - if you're going to ask someone else to show you courtesy, the least you can do is to then show them the same courtesy in return, unless you particularly want people to associate your name with rudeness and hypocrisy.

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Chris

I love the idea of PT, but then almost every time I try and use it, the unreliability of the service and the jobsworth attitude of the staff just take my breath away.

My other half and her parents decided to go to Bath from Yeovil on Saturday for the day. The journey up was relatively smooth, though the train had to back up a single track section when it turned out a train was coming the other way , so it was about 20 mins late, but the train home was cancelled (and this ain't a line with frequent trains).

When they went to an information desk to enquire about what alternatives were available, the rail employee's attitude was very much "why are you asking me?".

When they got home, all three said threats of violence would not induce them to try and do the same journey again by train.

The problem with public transport, as I see it, is the lack of an integrated system.

As an example, busses from the tiny village that's about 10 minutes walk from my unit run about twice a day, not an option if you want to link to a train at a particular time. Putting more busses on the route would be ludicrous, since there is not the demand for them, and as such they would be congesting (and carbon footprinting ) unnecessarily. What would be a viable option in a situation such as this, and its certainly not unique, would be adequate free parking for rail users at my nearest train station. I am sure the idea of more parking is anathema to the likes of Monbiot!

I often travel to London, and end up driving, and parking at a friend's house near Wembley. I would love to be able to take the train, and achieve the journey at similar expense of time and money.

Another journey I make is from my unit on one side of the town to my parents' house on the other. It takes 15 minutes, due to the ring-road. Even with an adequate bus service at my end, I would have to change in town and wait for another bus to put me within walking distance of their house. There is no way this would take less than an hour at the absolute minimum. There is no way any public transport I can conceive could eliminate journeys of this type.

For very low usage and diffuse public transport requirements, what's wrong with subsidised taxis? Much more effective and useful than a bus.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Or a self-driven taxi, saving driver's wages?

In fact a self-owned, self-driven taxi, saving the empty collect & return journeys?

A car, in fact.

I'm all for trains being improved to provide a real alternative to cars on longer (and cross city) journies... but buses are never going to be good enough, they don't do routes you need on short distances and often you need to change - this will always be the case as catering for everyones needs wont work

What's standing in the way of the trains becoming more popular? oh - um, another price increase of a whopping 4.8% this January (on average, some journies up by more than 10%) will not help things!!!

For everytime the Gvnt claims it upping cost of private transport, and how we should get onto public transport as cheaper, faster better - the private companies running public transport up the cost of that more so!

"never", "always"... you sure about that? 2 minutes walk from my front door is a bus stop on a route that will take me into the town centre about as quickly as I could manage it by car if I include the time taken to find a free parking space, or not much slower but a lot cheaper than if I drove straight to one of the pay car parks. About 5 minutes walk is another stop on a route that'll take me all the way along the main road through Southall, Ealing Broadway and into Shepherds Bush, and having driven that way a few times I'll gladly spend those 5 mins walking for the bus if it means letting someone else deal with the crappy traffic along much of that route.

So whilst many people might not have direct bus services from (almost) their front door to the places they want to go to, it's a bit of a stretch to assert that no-one will be in such a position.




Remind me again how much fuel prices have risen in the past year... Private motorists have faced similar rises in the cost of travel, we just have to pay out bit by bit throughout the year instead of being shielded from the increases until the annual fare revisions.

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Chris

woah woah - When I said "never going to be good enough", I meant they might work for some, but not for an awful lot

And despite the increase in fuel tax and fuel price, the increase in efficiency of modern cars means the cost hasn't increased a whole lot (if at all) for those with new vehicles (50-60mpg in newer petrol motors). Trains will indeed be cheaper overall (as you have the outlay of a car) but aren't cheap enough per journey to warrant sacrificing the freedom of time of travel, where to journey to etc etc.

---

Note: This is all in my opinion

Or put up with the smelly general public, delays, strikes etc.

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Babies ruin driving pleasure

Ah, fair enough, apologies for lumping you in with the "if it doesn't work for me, it can't possibly work for anyone else" brigade




Ah, but in %age terms the annual increase in rail fares is about the same as the annual increase in petrol prices, and by the time you include other running costs besides the petrol, even a relatively frugal 50-60mpg car could end up costing you about the same as a season ticket.

I could squeeze that sort of economy out of my car it'd (at current prices) still cost me a shade over 1000/year in petrol to get to and from work. Add in the servicing/spare parts/increased insurance premium costs incurred by adding 12000 miles/year onto the evening/weekend/holiday mileage the car would otherwise just be doing, and you're probably getting close to 1500/year. Which is the same price as an annual season ticket... Now, my employer offers interest free season ticket loans, paid back through monthly deductions, which is basically the same way I pay for my petrol - pay at the garage each week with my credit card, then pay off the card each month - so from a personal finance point of view it'd be no more of a burden to buy the season ticket. And if there are enough delays through the year, I could claim a reduction on the cost of next years ticket - if only we could claim a reduction on our next tank of petrol if we'd spent enough time in traffic jams in the past week!

In reality, I average nearer 25mpg on my daily commute, which makes it significantly more expensive for me to drive to work than to get the train. The only thing stopping me from ditching the car is time - travelling by car I save nearly an hour a day compared to using the train (plus a local bus to get to the station at this end of the journey), and having an extra hour at home each day is, to me, worth paying for. But without a doubt, if I lived nearer to the station here, I'd be leaving the car at home each day...

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Chris

a good point I somehow missed out.

I was speaking to my cousin today, who was retelling stories of how her mum mouths off at people on the bus and such - my aunt is exactly the reason I don't like going by bus (theres 1 of her on every few buses at least - just they are normally less than 16)... she is mouthy and thinks because she has come from a slightly less privilaged background she has a reason to be angry and rude at everyone else [/end sweeping generlisation]