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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 19:38 
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Environmentally friendly light bulbs ‘can give you skin cancer’
By JENNY HOPE - More by this author »
Last updated at 17:31pm on 4th January 2008

Energy-saving light bulbs can be bad for your skin, doctors are warning.

The fluorescent devices produce a more intense light and can aggravate a range of existing problems, especially in those with light-sensitive conditions.

Eco-bulbs are due to become compulsory in British homes within four years. But campaigners want the Government to allow an opt-out so people with health problems can still use old-style incandescent bulbs.

There have been growing concerns that low-energy light can trigger migraines, as well as dizziness, loss of focus and discomfort among those with epilepsy.

There have also been complaints from sufferers of lupus - an auto-immune disease causing many symptoms including pain.

The latest warning was issued by Spectrum - an alliance of charities working with people with lightsensitive conditions - and the British Association of Dermatologists (BAD).

Critics complain low-energy lights are either "cold" or "green," take up to a minute to warm up properly and because they are fluorescent, flicker.

Dr Colin Holden, president of the BAD, said: "It is important that patients with photosensitive skin eruptions are allowed to use lights that don't exacerbate their condition. Photosensitive eruptions range from disabling eczema-like reactions, to light sensitivities that can lead to skin cancer.

"It is essential that such patients are able to protect themselves from specific wavelengths of light emitted by fluorescent bulbs, especially as they are often trapped indoors because they can't venture out in natural sunlight."

Andrew Langford, of the Skin Care Campaign, said: "Incandescent light bulbs are the only source of electric light for many thousands of people with light-sensitive conditions.

"Add to this the thousands whose conditions or treatments may secondarily cause them to be light-sensitive, and you have a large number potentially being isolated in the dark.

"The Government simply must allow incandescent light bulbs to be available to these people, their families, friends and employers, and at a fair price."

Spectrum, which is running a campaign to raise awareness of the impact on health of switching to lowenergybulbs, says as many as 340,000 people could be affected.

Last week, the Migraine Action Association was inundated with calls from sufferers who linked attacks to exposure to the newstyle lighting.

Spectrum is urging the government to allow incandescent light bulbs to be supplied to people with health problems, which would enable protection of the environment without penalising those unable to live with fluorescent lighting.

One option could be to allow the purchase of environmentally friendly energy efficient incandescent bulbs which GE Consumerand Industrial is currently developing and hopes to market in 2010.

The Lighting Association says modern low-energy bulbs give a constant flicker-free light, although a small number of health problems have been reported by people using cheap poor-quality varieties.

The Energy Saving Trust, the Government's body to promote energy efficiency, says we should buy only bulbs with the Energy Saving Recommended - ESR - logo.


We’ll all be in the dark soon then, my house is full of them. Good job I don't smoke as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 04:02 
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Eco-bulbs are due to become compulsory in British homes within four years.


Not in my house they aren't. :idea:

Or are we going to have lightbulb police?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 04:30 
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Homer wrote:
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Eco-bulbs are due to become compulsory in British homes within four years.


Not in my house they aren't. :idea:

Or are we going to have lightbulb police?


They're going to ensure compliance by placing high-voltage spikes on the power system. Several 4KV spikes an hour will ensure that all incandescent filaments have a very short life. This also has the benefit of ruining computers and other consumer equipment, which ensure a ready source of new customers since gear is usually reliable now (ish) :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:16 
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Homer wrote:
Quote:
Eco-bulbs are due to become compulsory in British homes within four years.


Not in my house they aren't. :idea:

Or are we going to have lightbulb police?


Aren't they going to stop making incandescent lamps and stop anyone selling them UK?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:29 
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This I know is another subject where looking at the bigger picture makes you realise just how short-sighted this is.

In fact LED lighting will almost certainly be available in sufficient quantity at a sufficiently good cost of ownership price that the era of these "low energy" fluorescents is a transient one.

I would have thought 4kv spikes would be more likely to take out the electronic ballasts in these low energy things than the thermally decoupled filament lamps.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:34 
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I'm no fan of energy saving bulbs, and find their light quality rather dismal, but:

This is number 187,367 in the tabloid list of "things that cause or cure cancer" and is almost certainly total bullshit.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:41 
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Dixie wrote:
Homer wrote:
Quote:
Eco-bulbs are due to become compulsory in British homes within four years.


Not in my house they aren't. :idea:

Or are we going to have lightbulb police?


Aren't they going to stop making incandescent lamps and stop anyone selling them UK?


Yes, they are.
The benefits of this will be soon noticed.
Old people will switch the light on and then fall down the stairs before they warm-up to produce useful light to see the stairs !
It will lead to an increased use of electricity, because the energy-saving lamps, instead of being switched off will remain on. It saves "stand-around-and-wait-for-light-to-get-bright time.

Oh, and you cannot put them in the bin when they cease light production, because they are classed as hazardous waste (mercury content)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:57 
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It will lead to an increased use of electricity, because the energy-saving lamps, instead of being switched off will remain on. It saves "stand-around-and-wait-for-light-to-get-bright time.


Funny you should say that.

Just about everybody I know using CFL's tends to leave them on all the time instead of switching them on and off as needed. so alledged energy savings are negated (and that isnt even considering the other factoid that "waste heat" from lighbulbs isnt wasted in the first place, it contributes towards space heating)

They do not last 10,000 hrs! (though they do if you use them for outside lighting which is a cooler operating enviroment)

They also have a nasty habit of catching fire!!!

So far we have had several experiance this "Exiting" failure mode so I doubt if they are isolated incidents (recognised manufacturers too, not dubios "No name" tat from china!)

Do NOT use CFLs with flammable lightshades otherwise you might end up burning your house down!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 14:40 
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I suspect the cancer scare is because like Fluorescent tubes, they "leak" UV light. Many skin conditions will be irritated by this, even if it does not cause cancer!
However it is strange this concern has not received such widespread publicity until now! :)

I work with UV sensitive materials, and use incandescent bulbs to prevent the material being spoiled.
I am presently building up a large stock for when they stop selling them - which is lucky, because mant large DIY chains are selling them off cheap!
I suspect that others are doing the same, because our local FOCUS store seems to have a large turnover of bulbs - bundled in 10's for £2!
The alternative are specially made "AMBER" fluorescent tubes at £25 each + carriage, which are difficult to work in for any period of time, and allow now colour recognition!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 15:26 
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Roger wrote:
This I know is another subject where looking at the bigger picture makes you realise just how short-sighted this is.

In fact LED lighting will almost certainly be available in sufficient quantity at a sufficiently good cost of ownership price that the era of these "low energy" fluorescents is a transient one.

I would have thought 4kv spikes would be more likely to take out the electronic ballasts in these low energy things than the thermally decoupled filament lamps.


We will NOT be having LED lights in our house! My wife suffers from a mild form of epilepsy (photo-sensitive type) and LED lights cause her problems. (LED light box have warnings about not looking at them directly, they have laser type approval, or something similar)

They also cause me migraines. We were going to have our halogen bulbs replaced with LED bulbs, but we can't for the reasons above.

If they can cause problems for people with epilepsy, lupus, etc., then the government banning incandescent light bulbs might be illegal as it could breach the DDA.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 17:34 
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I use EE bulbs throughout the house except in the 2 rooms with dimmer switches as they don't work with them. I turn on and off all the time, the above described delay is true on some of the bulbs but not on others. ie, i have 2 lights in the hallway, one turns on immediately, the other only takes about 2 seconds to fire up. They both light adequately. I think the fuss around 'warm up' time is exagerated big time, certainly mind don't take a significant enough amount of time for me to be so silly as to leave them on at all times.

Fair enough if you have skin problems and they are a catalyst for that, don't use them - but otherwise it saves money if used as you use ordinary bulbs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 17:42 
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mmltonge wrote:
I use EE bulbs throughout the house except in the 2 rooms with dimmer switches as they don't work with them. I turn on and off all the time, the above described delay is true on some of the bulbs but not on others. ie, i have 2 lights in the hallway, one turns on immediately, the other only takes about 2 seconds to fire up. They both light adequately. I think the fuss around 'warm up' time is exagerated big time, certainly mind don't take a significant enough amount of time for me to be so silly as to leave them on at all times.

Fair enough if you have skin problems and they are a catalyst for that, don't use them - but otherwise it saves money if used as you use ordinary bulbs.


Quite true, if you use them in a very warm environment they have a fast warm-up time. The same is not true if you operate them in a temperature lower than about 12C. Fluorescent lights never really get going in cold temperatures...and no, I do not keep the heating on all the time....and with the gas bill going up 17% now, and an estimated 50% in a year or twos time, I expect a lot of people will knock the thermostat down to 10....if on at all.
Since many people reckon the winters are going to get much colder in the next 10 years....you can expect many old people to just die...if they don't fall down the stairs first and kill themselves that is.
And the energy saved isn't saved in winter...you just use the heating more to make-up the several hundred watts you lose from the incandescent lamps...as said previously. However, some politicians friend/s will make a killing selling them, and increase the amount of mercury in the water supply. So, if we do not die from cold, we'll have problems of madness from mercury in the water supply, and then there's the female hormones from the birth control pills, which is also not removed in the processing.....


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 17:47 
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jomukuk wrote:


Since many people reckon the winters are going to get much colder in the next 10 years....you can expect many old people to just die...if they don't fall down the stairs first and kill themselves that is.


But then again as it gets closer to election time ,expect the winter heating allowance to increase .( As the judge said in Birmingham after the case involving postal votes , this lot's antics are reminiscent of a third world country ) :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 17:58 
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Roger wrote:
This I know is another subject where looking at the bigger picture makes you realise just how short-sighted this is.

In fact LED lighting will almost certainly be available in sufficient quantity at a sufficiently good cost of ownership price that the era of these "low energy" fluorescents is a transient one.


LED has to improve a lot, it's been touted for a few years as the future but you still can't buy a decent quality light output, you have a choice between a ghostly cold white and amber. That said, in time it will improve and I wouldn't be suprised if in a few years we're buying light fittings with mega long life LED's instead of "replacable" lamps.

Flourescent light has an image problem more than anything, I've just replaced halogen tracking in a workshop (no natural light) with (decent high frequency) flourescent fittings and they think it's brill. yet other customers ask me for advice when considering to install LV spots and gag when I mention flourescent. I think there's a lot of a) snobbery and b) people who's experience of flourescent is limited to cheap, poorly maintained fittings.

BTW, not saying this condition doesn't exist, and of course we all have personal preferences (personally I hate bright spots, evan though I install the things by the gross), but i think the limitations of flourescent light are exagerated.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 18:39 
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hairyben wrote:
LED has to improve a lot, it's been touted for a few years as the future but you still can't buy a decent quality light output, you have a choice between a ghostly cold white and amber.

It's all in the phosphor mix, you can get any colour temp you want nowadays.

There has been a recent breakthrough using nano-imprint lithography to let yet more of the light out from the die, they're another step closer.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 20:45 
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jomukuk wrote:
Quite true, if you use them in a very warm environment they have a fast warm-up time. The same is not true if you operate them in a temperature lower than about 12C. Fluorescent lights never really get going in cold temperatures...and no, I do not keep the heating on all the time....and with the gas bill going up 17% now, and an estimated 50% in a year or twos time, I expect a lot of people will knock the thermostat down to 10....if on at all.
Since many people reckon the winters are going to get much colder in the next 10 years....you can expect many old people to just die...if they don't fall down the stairs first and kill themselves that is.
And the energy saved isn't saved in winter...you just use the heating more to make-up the several hundred watts you lose from the incandescent lamps...as said previously. However, some politicians friend/s will make a killing selling them, and increase the amount of mercury in the water supply. So, if we do not die from cold, we'll have problems of madness from mercury in the water supply, and then there's the female hormones from the birth control pills, which is also not removed in the processing.....


I'm not doubting your facts about them not working as well in cold. My lights have no effect on how often my heating is on, however. Except for the week during Christmas when I had relatives over it has been on a max of 4 hours a day (weekends - 2 hours normally) - so I don't really think the effects you speak of with regards to heating more, offsetting the saving and er, deaths in the 'dark' are at all realistic. The energy price increases (which are unbelievably huge!) + temperatures will effect peoples use of heating, not their choice of light bulb...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 20:51 
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mmltonge wrote:
I use EE bulbs throughout the house except in the 2 rooms with dimmer switches as they don't work with them. I turn on and off all the time, the above described delay is true on some of the bulbs but not on others. ie, i have 2 lights in the hallway, one turns on immediately, the other only takes about 2 seconds to fire up. They both light adequately. I think the fuss around 'warm up' time is exagerated big time, certainly mind don't take a significant enough amount of time for me to be so silly as to leave them on at all times.

Fair enough if you have skin problems and they are a catalyst for that, don't use them - but otherwise it saves money if used as you use ordinary bulbs.


Yes. But "ordinary" bulbs will be banned, soon. People will not have the choice.

Maybe there will be an increase in the use of gas lighting, candles, paraffin and oil lamps? (And resultant house fires?)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 21:15 
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Thatsnews wrote:
mmltonge wrote:
I use EE bulbs throughout the house except in the 2 rooms with dimmer switches as they don't work with them. I turn on and off all the time, the above described delay is true on some of the bulbs but not on others. ie, i have 2 lights in the hallway, one turns on immediately, the other only takes about 2 seconds to fire up. They both light adequately. I think the fuss around 'warm up' time is exagerated big time, certainly mind don't take a significant enough amount of time for me to be so silly as to leave them on at all times.

Fair enough if you have skin problems and they are a catalyst for that, don't use them - but otherwise it saves money if used as you use ordinary bulbs.


Yes. But "ordinary" bulbs will be banned, soon. People will not have the choice.

Maybe there will be an increase in the use of gas lighting, candles, paraffin and oil lamps? (And resultant house fires?)


Hmnn. I actually thought about gas light a couple of years ago.

Gaslight with gas mantles actually provides a really rather nice light. Not only that, but in my "period" home (18thC, maybe older) it looks rather more appropriate than flourescent tubes!

Not sure it would cost any more than electricity either! (Mantles are pretty good at turning heat into light, and the heat isnt a waste anyway! Hey! Home heating with free lighting! Isnt that called CHP?? :) )

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 21:33 
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Dusty wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
mmltonge wrote:
I use EE bulbs throughout the house except in the 2 rooms with dimmer switches as they don't work with them. I turn on and off all the time, the above described delay is true on some of the bulbs but not on others. ie, i have 2 lights in the hallway, one turns on immediately, the other only takes about 2 seconds to fire up. They both light adequately. I think the fuss around 'warm up' time is exagerated big time, certainly mind don't take a significant enough amount of time for me to be so silly as to leave them on at all times.

Fair enough if you have skin problems and they are a catalyst for that, don't use them - but otherwise it saves money if used as you use ordinary bulbs.


Yes. But "ordinary" bulbs will be banned, soon. People will not have the choice.

Maybe there will be an increase in the use of gas lighting, candles, paraffin and oil lamps? (And resultant house fires?)


Hmnn. I actually thought about gas light a couple of years ago.

Gaslight with gas mantles actually provides a really rather nice light. Not only that, but in my "period" home (18thC, maybe older) it looks rather more appropriate than flourescent tubes!

Not sure it would cost any more than electricity either! (Mantles are pretty good at turning heat into light, and the heat isnt a waste anyway! Hey! Home heating with free lighting! Isnt that called CHP?? :) )


I know a family that still uses gas for lighting. There's a pub called The Dolphin in Shrewsbury that is gaslit. Very nice, non-harsh light.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 23:27 
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Dixie wrote:
Aren't they going to stop making incandescent lamps and stop anyone selling them UK?


Thank goodness for e-bay..... :lol:

Most of the stuff I buy from there seems to come from abroad anyhow.

If not there is always car boot sales/sunday markets.

Anyhow there will be plenty or warning of the change so you will get chance to stock up.

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