Safe Speed Forums

Hi,

I need some advice with regards to my pending court date....

In August 2007 I was sent in the post a notice of prosecution from South Yorkshire police due to apparently doing 40 in a 30 area. The apparent offence is on a stretch of road in my home town Barnsley which everyone knows about and I clearly saw the mobile speed camera (LTI 20:20) on my approach to the road, and checked my speed, I was doing 30mph, and even my TomTom stated I was doing 30Mph, it beeps if you go to about 34 miles per hour so I was certainly not doing 40.

Of course when this arrived I contested it, asked for all the usual, pics, test certifictates etc. These were only sent after two letters requesting it.

I couldnt make my initial court hearing date due to a holiday commitment but I was advised to ask for the video evidence too, this arrived the other day and lasts for 4 seconds!...with a letter enclosed saying that the quality is not good enough to use i court.

I've read comments on the LTI 20:20 and really feel Ive been wrongly done here, I've been driving for 7 years now, never had any speeding offence and also am an active member of the institute of advaced motorists.

Should I send anything back with regards to the video which arrived? Im assuming now they will re-schedule the hearing date....

Any help is really appreciated.

Thanks

Ed

I have PM'd you some advice. Let me know how you get on.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Thanks for your reply and message, I certainly will be challenging this as far as much as I can, I wonder how many people in the UK just simply pay the fine and accept the points??.....

LOADS!!

What format was the video in?
Does it explain if it is YOUR copy which is unsuitable, or the original?

I would expect to see the evidence that the officer using the LTI had been properly trained on the device, as well as the calibration certificate.
Your solicitor should be able to guide you in this!

Does the video show the aiming point of the device? If so, is it trained on your vehicle, and are there any other vehicles in the proximity?

Finally, what sort of range was the reading taken from?

Look forward to seeing a good result!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

The video is VHS (I don't think they have adopted DVD's yet!).

It does show my hire van, with another car right behind me....the aim is at the front of my van then shoots down the side to the car behind, like I say it only lasts a few seconds then cuts out...

According to the letter that came with it, the quality of the video is too poor to use in court so will not bed used.

I got the calibrtaion cert after I requested it but this is just a bog standard document which doesnt explain much really. I havent had any vehicle training documents from the user of the gun..

Off the top of my head it must have been about 20-30 metres but this is just a guess, im going to try and work it out from the very short video..

I think YOU should submit the video as evidence in court!

Something like:
"This video was recorded at the time of the alleged offence. The video recording is deemed to be of insufficient quality to be used as evidence. If the video evidence is ruled by the prosecution to be inadmissible, how can they be so certain that the other evidence (presumably collected by the same operators) is admissible?"

Do you have legal action cover on your insurance? (House or business or motoring) If so, call the free legal advice number and see if they can help. They might even represent you in court, though I am not certain about this. But if you do not ask, you'll never know!

Might be worth hiring a solicitor, if you can afford it.

Good luck.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Thanks for this advice, im sure i do have legal cover on my house, car and business so will give them a call....

I will keep you all posted.

You must get over to pepipoo,

try this link for starters

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=19284

Can somebody tell me what difference having another car in the frame has, because my pictures have the car in front on the first picture supplied and no speed showing

For a Gatso radar camera it would mean the reading should be ignored.
For an LTI 20/20 (or other lidar device) it would not.

That's not to say that another car won't have an effect if the beam is aimed from far enough away and the car is between the speed meter and your car when the speed reading was taken (which is just before the first frame showing the speed and no TIMEOUT). But that's hard to prove and would require you to understand how lidar works. And you'd have to be able to explain how it works to the court, because they probably won't understand.

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Andrew.

Sounds like a job for Dr.Clark?
Since the OP says he was not speeding, then I assumed there is a recognisable reason the device returned a wrong reading, and therefore somebody with a degree of expertise would need to review the video.

Having heard that it is marked unsuitable for use in court, then I am encouraged to suggest that the charge is a complete travesty - and I havent seen the video yet!

This sounds like one for SubStandard to have a go at - he has a spiritual belief in the infallibility of the device! In fact he declares a Jihad on anyone who mocks him or it, with all the venom of those upset by the Danish cartoons!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Hope this is not too late. Ask for the calibration certificate of the equipment and the operators manual. Also note that radars can be subject to huge errors if the target that the beam is reflected from is not in effect a flat mirror. For example if the reflected beam "jumps" from the windscreen to the front bumper the vehicle will appear to be going faster than it actually is. Remember that in a criminal case the prosecution are supposed to prove their case BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. Hand held guns can also be subject to errors as apart from the cop "pumping" the gun deliberately, errors can occur that are due to slight body tremors (ever tried taking photos with a long lens?) With Gatsos ask for the two photos and the equation and note that there are two common line spacings (metric and imperial?) Measure the line spacings if possible and do the maths. One man who did all this was able to prove that he was only doing 13mph when they were trying to frame him for about 50!

Good Luck, hope you don't get stitched up.

The tape is the secondary evidence confirming the officers opinion that you were speeding. The short section you were sent is of little use you need to demand the full tape, as it should have the alignment and callibration checks on it. If it has not, it will mean that the evidence is unsound. Just because the cross of the video is on your car does not mean the laser of the 20.20 was. If the 20.20 and the video were not alighed properly the higher recorded speed could be caused by slipage. read Dr Clarks report on the 20.20.

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help Dr L i have been band from driving for six months i was not speeding the LTi 20/20 was not being used in line with ACPO this was proved, high probability of speed reading affected by reflection from other vehicle have video need to prove speed

The Safe Speed Sponsor (please don't forget) are very happy to help, on 0808 1554 870 (free call) and please do say that you got their number from Safe Speed. If you join Safe Speed they will give you a 10% discount too.

I have used the lti20/20 and it is clearly an appalling piece of equipment. We had a car stopped with keys out and it read 7mph. Then Paul had his vehicle going as close to 30mph as he possibly could, and that read 37mph. And according to a Sat Nav 30 is certainly not 37mph more like 26mph ! He was using a van type vehicle so teh slip angle is much worse.

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