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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 17:07 
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exeter express & echo

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IN-CAR COMPUTER BLAMED FOR FIRST SPEEDING TICKETS

11:40 - 18 January 2008

A businessman caught speeding four times in three days says a faulty in-car computer made his speedometer go haywire.

Paul Kirby, 52, had never had a speeding ticket before he was snapped by cameras four times on the same fishing trip including at Exeter on the M5 and Fingle Glen on the A30.

Exeter Magistrates' Court heard he had to send his Mercedes 220 CDI to a specialist dealer for the onboard computer to be fixed after receiving all four speeding notices on the same day.

Training consultant Kirby said the computer on his eight-year-old Mercedes also gave fuel consumption readings of 83 miles a gallon and caused the boot to open on its own.

His car had both a digital speed reading and a traditional speedometer and it was only after he was caught he realised they had different readings.

He submitted two technical reports and an invoice for £626 for repairing the faulty computer.

Kirby, of Sutton Coldfield, near Birmingham, admitted four speeding offences but told magistrates there were special reasons why he should not be disqualified.

They accepted the car had a fault but said he was already aware of it and should have realised he was driving at 25mph over the limit. He was banned for six months, fined £800 and ordered to pay £50 costs yesterday.

Ben Winzer, prosecuting, said Kirby's Mercedes was caught by cameras on the M5 on April 2, last year, as he headed for Cornwall, at Newquay the next day, and twice in the space of 23 minutes as he returned home on the A 30 the following day. He was caught going at 40mph in a 30mph limit, 73mph and 76mph in a 50mph zone and 95mph in a 70mph limit.

He said: "The defendant says an electrical fault meant he did not appreciate his speed. On three occasions, he was more than 20mph over the limit and he should have realised he was travelling at excessive speed.

"He was aware the car was experiencing electrical faults and in these circumstances he should not have relied on the speedometer alone."

Kirby said he thought the computer had been fixed before he went on his fishing weekend with his son, 15.

He said: "I knew the car had gremlins but I did not realise I was speeding. It was not like a rocket versus a pram. If I had been stopped by the police I would have known something was wrong but I was caught by cameras all four times.

"I have been driving for 35 years without a single offence. The digital reading was not consistent with the speedometer but I was looking at the needle and going by that.

"When I got home I received four notices of impending prosecution and immediately took the car off the road so it could be examined and fixed."

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 22:00 
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anton wrote:
He was caught going at 40mph in a 30mph limit, 73mph and 76mph in a 50mph zone and 95mph in a 70mph limit.

He said: "The defendant says an electrical fault meant he did not appreciate his speed. On three occasions, he was more than 20mph over the limit and he should have realised he was travelling at excessive speed.


whilst excessive speed is the wrong term as we're not able to tell if the speed was excessive or dangerous, i'm inclined to agree hw should have noticed 20mph discrepancy.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 23:09 
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ed_m wrote:
anton wrote:
He was caught going at 40mph in a 30mph limit, 73mph and 76mph in a 50mph zone and 95mph in a 70mph limit.

He said: "The defendant says an electrical fault meant he did not appreciate his speed. On three occasions, he was more than 20mph over the limit and he should have realised he was travelling at excessive speed.


whilst excessive speed is the wrong term as we're not able to tell if the speed was excessive or dangerous, i'm inclined to agree hw should have noticed 20mph discrepancy.


But if your car drives smoothly, how would you be expected to know?

A mate of mine -he is American- loaned his elderly parents his car whilst their car was in the shop. Their car? Elderly knacker, if it got anywhere near 50mph, everything started rattling and shaking.

His car? New Corvette Stingray. Smooth as anything, so it was only when his mom glanced at the speedo that she noticed they were driving along at 120mph! :o :D

So I can well believe the chap was doing 10/20mph over the limit and not noticed.

Still, so long as the prostitution solicitor Ben Dover or whatever his name is, gets an easy conviction why should he bother himself? :x

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 09:43 
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Thatsnews wrote:
But if your car drives smoothly, how would you be expected to know?


gear. engine revs. visual perception.

( that and catching other traffic with a 20mph differential speed :wink: )


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:24 
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ed_m wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
But if your car drives smoothly, how would you be expected to know?


gear. engine revs. visual perception.

( that and catching other traffic with a 20mph differential speed :wink: )


Possibly, but on a motorway of 70mph I think you'd find an awful lot of traffic doing the same 90mph as this chap was doing. Ditto for most 50mph areas.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:29 
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mmltonge wrote:
ed_m wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
But if your car drives smoothly, how would you be expected to know?


gear. engine revs. visual perception.

( that and catching other traffic with a 20mph differential speed :wink: )


Possibly, but on a motorway of 70mph I think you'd find an awful lot of traffic doing the same 90mph as this chap was doing. Ditto for most 50mph areas.


HGVs are a pretty constant reminder though. You can easily get a feel for how fast you are going by how fast you are passing them I'm very suprised he couldn't tell a 20mph difference.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:48 
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Thatsnews wrote:
A mate of mine -he is American- loaned his elderly parents his car whilst their car was in the shop. Their car? Elderly knacker, if it got anywhere near 50mph, everything started rattling and shaking.

His car? New Corvette Stingray. Smooth as anything, so it was only when his mom glanced at the speedo that she noticed they were driving along at 120mph! :o :D

So I can well believe the chap was doing 10/20mph over the limit and not noticed.



The car was not new to him though?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:39 
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I was gonna raise the same point toltec - understandable if you are in an unfamiliar car and can't feel the speed. I presume the fault would have occurred overnight so i would doubt if the speed accuracy gradually degraded. Im sure most people would notice such a step change.

One thing i would be curious about is what exactly was the speedo showing? Was it showing gibberish at low speeds giving him a clue that it could be faulty? Was it actually saying 70 when he was tearing down the motorway? Was it showing nothing sensible at all and he is just using it as an excuse?

I am not familiar with this type of dashboard that seems to have 2 speedos - If anyone can enlighten me as to what he could have seen i'd be grateful. I seem to have the impression that there was a mechanical clock type speedo as found on most cars that would have been correct and also some type of digital read out that incorporates the fuel computer etc. I'm a little confused as to why you would not be using your mechanical gauge for general driving and relying solely on the other when his car clearly was suffering problems with this system


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 13:22 
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my interpretation is that it had a standard analogue speedo dial, plus speed display option in the text / message area of the dash.

the db9 i drove had this although it was so heavily filtered i never really relied on it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 14:35 
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The DB9 digital speedo lags behind as speed changes as the electronics does seem to make it respond sluggishly. Unfortunately, the analogue dial is a triumph of style over practicality in that it is extremely difficult to read.

However, at reasonably constant speed (e.g. when cruising) the digital speedo is very accurate and can be relied on to take you through camera locations.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 14:36 
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Now I think about I have noticed that the average speed indicator reads about 3mph less than the analogue dial when holding the car at near constant speeds (cruise control) through the specs on the A14.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 15:06 
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malcolmw wrote:
The DB9 digital speedo lags behind as speed changes as the electronics does seem to make it respond sluggishly.


i suspect this is designed in.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 15:06 
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On re-reading the OP i notice it says

Quote:
The digital reading was not consistent with the speedometer but I was looking at the needle and going by that


Sounds like he was watching an analogue type speedo.

I also think that to not notice you are doing 95 even on a motorway really is pushing the boundaries. To be passing hgvs at around 40 mph speed difference and at 95 you are one of the faster cars on a motorway (i imagine :)) Lets also remember that he ahs passed four speed traps without the penny dropping i would question either his observation or his processing. To be blunt he is either driving around with his eyes shut or he's not the sharpest tool in the box.

On the other hand it shows how cameras replacing traffic cops are not doing their jobs. Had he been stopped by trafpol he would perhaps have got a good talking to and no ticket but he would have been made aware that his speedo was faulty. At the worst it would be one charge of speeding and an awareness of the problem.

We are now looking at someone being banned from driving for driving that may well not have been dangerous or inconsiderate.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 15:11 
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4by4 wrote:
We are now looking at someone being banned from driving for driving that may well not have been dangerous or inconsiderate.


whilst i agree with the latter part of that statement (just)... we're looking at someone being banned from driving for speeding.

which is of course a different offence.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 16:12 
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4by4 wrote:
On re-reading the OP i notice it says

Quote:
The digital reading was not consistent with the speedometer but I was looking at the needle and going by that


Sounds like he was watching an analogue type speedo.


hmmmm yes strange that.
the analogue speedo is almost certainly driven by the same electronics as the digital readout... using the same speed signal read in from wherever (the brake ECU probably).

quite why you'd give the software enough scope to modify it this much i dunno.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 16:53 
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Maybe he wasn't sticking to the speed limits all the time, but slowing down for each camera. Then it could easily feel like you're going slower than you are...?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 18:41 
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This has happened to me. Luckily I was on my cycle. I was just overtaking ed_m :hehe:

The speedo has a remote link from a transmitter, mounted on the front fork.

When I'm cycling over by a place called Droitwich, where there are three massive aerials, it goes crazy.

Maybe the same could happen to a car? Unless cars use an RF link I doubt it but goodness knows what's under the bonnet these days.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 19:48 
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anton wrote:
His car had both a digital speed reading and a traditional speedometer and it was only after he was caught he realised they had different readings.


Sounds like a cock and bull story to me, but at least he didn't fake his own death like the bloke in the other thread!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 20:27 
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given that the Car was a Mercedes, i would guess that it was an Automatic, as Merc are not renowned for their manual gearboxes and the handbrake arrangement means you are unlikely to choose the manual


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 03:34 
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So, here we have another example of speed cameras NOT doing the job they are sold to the public as doing.

If a police officer had pulled him over first time, then -if his story is 100% legit- he would have been able to get the speedo sorted.

But he was caught 4 times and -of course- the scameras did not stop him from speeding. But you see, and the speed camera fanatics might like to take note of this, and it is important that they do:

It is not the purpose of speed cameras to stop people exceeding the speed limit.

However, it IS the purpose of speed cameras to inform someone, possibly weeks later, that they might have exceeded the speed limit, and that they, as the registered keeper, are going to be prosecuted.

Of course, the other effect is that it has emasculated (and the female equivalent thereof) our traffic police officers. Well, what's the point when we have speed scamera partnerships?

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