Big Tone wrote:
If there were just three million people in this country, like New Zealand or the state of Idaho, instead of the 60+ million or if the world population was less than a billion, (let's say), then maybe we would all have room and could all enjoy life complete with cars and without upsetting the delicate balance of nature. We shouldn't need to go back to troglodytes but it almost seems like that is where some would lead us these days.
It is the sheer number of humans IMHO which is the problem but of course it would be political suicide to mention it. It's bad enough to even say it as I have done here without sounding like a misanthropist but I actually do care about our life - all life! Ultimately there can be no life or quality of life if we don't reduce our numbers. So although you disliked what Graeme said, (perhaps "those countries" wasn't the best thing to say), what answer do you have?
Industry pumps out far more crud than cars but what is feeding industry? People, naturally.
I know one westernised person probably does more harm than a thousand in a third world country, so you could argue if anyone needs sterilising is should be 'us' lot.
Well, now I look like a fan of Hitler and a nut so I'd better go have a pint...
I don't think you sound like a nutter but I don't quite share your worries about population levels in this country at the moment. There are some very crowded places, but I think the more unpleasant effects of this could be addressed by a society serious about such things as housing and transport policy. I find the idea of a UK with only 3m people more of a nightmare than a utopia, although I do accept that rapid population growth places pressures on public services.
I am not one of these people who equates perpetual economic growth with progress, and therefore I have never supported policies aimed solely at maximising it. I mentioned earlier the importance of protecting working conditions and pay, and I believe that this (as well as being desirable in itself) would be radically effective in reducing the demand for cheap immigrant labour. As for people who come to Britain to escape conditions at home, it is surely obvious that while there is no quick-fix solution, we would do well to look to our foreign policy and that of our allies before complaining. It is no accident that large numbers of refugees come from places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia etc. The same goes for economic policy - as you rightly say, we cannot criticise developing countries for pursuing policies similar to our own.
As for the issue of overpopulation in other countries, including those countries from which people often come to Britain, one very important thing to address is women's rights. Reproductive rights are a good barometer of women's situation more generally, and it is the case just about everywhere that the more control women have over their own reproduction, the fewer children they have. So I take it that everyone who is concerned about global overpopulation will be supporting better access to sex education, contraception and abortion, here and everywhere else?
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I'd hate people to think I'm only here for a row.