Safe Speed Forums

reference?

I have been advised on an advanced driving course (a day out, a bit of a "lite" course rather than a full AIM or suchlike course) to keep your footbrake on when stopped on the carriageway. The full advice was when stopped on a motorway, for example, you should stop nearly a full car length from the car ahead and with footbrake on fully. That way in the case of a shunt from behind

1) it should be less likely with the brake lights on in the first place
2) if shunted, you will not shoot forward freely.
3) the big gap gives you more chance of stopping before hitting the vehicle in front - reducing the likelihood of "knock for knock" insurance claims and thus protecting your no claims bonus.
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[back on topic]
I'm a button presser and handbrake thumper. I press the button in, pull up, then release and gently (or not so) press the handbrake to make sure the ratchet has engaged. I'm with RP - the sound of a ratchet puts my teeth on edge.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

On roads other than motorways/dc I think it's safe to release once one or two cars have stopped behind and so as not to irritate the driver behind. On motorways I would make a judgement about when a serious rear-end collision was unlikely.

I'm a button pusher for the simple reason the ratchet sounds awful, especially if it needs to be apply frequently. I always leave in gear as well.

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In a former life I was Capri2.8

I wasn't a button pusher intill I did Rospa. It did make me think. I have driven many vehicles that have had the first 4 or 5 notches worn of the hand brake and as my car has to last a few years, it's nearly 10 and I've had it nearly 6 of those, I like to keep the repairs down.

When I come to a stop, once the car behind has stopped, it's hand brake on, in neutral and foot OFF the brake pedal. So, no ratchet wear, no thrust bearing wear and no brake damage from clamping a hot disc.

First thing I got told on learning to drive - "Press the button" - it'll save pounds in repairs ,and you can always check to make sure it is held. Few years later Gov't dept I worked for sent an instructor to teach me to drive vans - (somehow the fact that I had a licence had not got through ) --so we had a nice week in the country - but again came the same message - after noting that I always pushed button ---"Never pull it up on the ratchet "--I never have ,and in around forty years of driving have never had any problems. One other tip I was given was to apply the handbrake with an extra bit of pressure on the foot brake to help the shoes to be held tight against the drum .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Weird! I don't think I've EVER seen a car with a worn-out handbrake ratchet! I've had a fari few in my time too! My current one is coming up for a quarter of a million miles and the very LAST thing that's going to cause me sleepless nights is the handbrake ratchet! Has anyone ever tried hacksawing one? They're &*^&*g hard steel!!

Also, the "hot pads" thing isn't really ever a problem excpet maybe on track days after the brakes have been gratuitously abused. BEsides, if you've put the handbrake on, unless you've got a car with a separate drum for the handbrake, you're still going to be clamping the pads to a hot disc (or drum).

Not about to spend the rest of the day searching for the relevant links, but in summary the suggestion was that, in a rear-end shunt, the sudden thump is likely to pull your foot off the pedal, increasing the risk of you being pushed into the vehicle/junction ahead. I go along with the idea of keeping the brake lights on to reduce the risk of the shunt occurring in the first place, but you can't eliminate that risk entirely...

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Chris

Well, this topic may soon become irrelevant!

Earlier this week, I test drove the new Audi A4 model, which is just being introduced. So far, the saloon model is available, with orders being taken on the estate (Avant) very soon.

The test car's hand brake was a little switch in the centre console. You simply flip the switch up, and motors apply the brakes. A red light in the switch comes on to show the brakes are applied. When it's time to move off, you simply drive away, and the computers time the automatic release of the brake. Great for hill starts! Also, the brake will NOT be released unless the driver has fastened his seat belt.

There were some interesting toys on this car, including some which seize control from the driver, and would never find their way into any car of mine. The day I need technology to save me from myself is the day I hang up my driving gloves.

These systems are becoming the normal fit now as they are easier to engineer than allowing for cables and levers.

Your description of "seizing control from the driver" rather reminds me of the analogy with MS Word. The day I need this technology I'll give up typing.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Hi Malcolm! Yes, the new A4's appeal seems to be driven by the plethora of toys now to be found in it. That auto brake release is fine, but requiring the driver to have fastened the seatbelt before the car can be moved does not take into account those occasions when, for example, the car is being put in the garage, and the driver has got out to open the garage door and will only be moving the car a few yards after getting back in. Having said that, the setup of the car's computer systems looked like configuring Windows Vista! There were pages of options that could be gone through to get the car the way you wanted it. Then there were about five different ways to set the suspension. I was in the back seat when "comfort" mode was selected, and instantly felt the change in ride.

The toy I really disliked was the one that senses a front end collision, sounds a warning, and applies the brakes thereby seizing control from the driver. I was coming across the M4 at J11 when, negotiating the roundabout, the car detected a van in front. I was about to turn up the A33 back towards the Audi garage, but the car seemed to think I was about to rear-end the van which was stopped directly ahead. (The van was at the tail end of a queue waiting at the next traffic light on this roundabout) Suddenly, there was an audible warning, together with a warning picture in the driver information display, and for an instant I do believe the brakes werre applied. Just then, I had begun to bear left away from the van, and normal service was resumed.

Other nick-nacks -

• "intelligent" cruise control, which will maintain the car's speed but will slow the car down if it comes up behind a slower moving vehicle. The distance that will be maintained is a parameter to be entered into setup.
• steering wheel vibration if the driver begins to stray out of lane. The intensity of the vibration can be varied in the setup options.
• A rear facing camera for help with reversing. The image from the camera is displayed in the SatNav display when reverse gear is selected.

I know I'm getting old, but for me, some of these devices are well over the top.

the trouble with systems like this is that people will get to rely on them!

Expect to see more rather than less shunts as these systems age and become less reliable.

Also expect cars to go to the breakers after shorter and shorter lives as the cost of diagosing and reparing electronic gizmos causes vehicles to decpreciate at an ever increasing rate.

I am already appaled by what I see at modern breakers. Stuff like this is only going to make things worse.

So much for enviromental freindlyness

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I may be wrong but I suspect the previous owner fitted a "fly-off" handbrake. Was the car used for competition?

This is a simple mod which (as said) reverses the operation of the button so that you have to press it to engage the ratchet rather than to release it. The idea is that when doing handbrake turns or using the handbrake to correct understeer in corners you can just grab the lever without needing to press the button in at all.

For what it's worth I dislike them as you are always prone to forgetting it's fitted and pressing the button in anyway, which then means you come to a screaming halt with the handbrake wedged on about 6 clicks up and the wheels locked solid! A better solution is to fit a removable "arming pin" in the mechanism that you click into place for competition use to completely disable the ratchet, and then pull it out again to revert to a normal handbrake when you park.

As to the thread title, I always press the button in just far enough that you can feel but not hear the ratchet. I totally accept the truth that there is no real risk of wearing out the ratchet in a modern car, but I guess it's just a "mechanical sympathy" thing with me - I hate the unnecessary sound of the ratchet clicking.

Oh, and I don't sit on the footbrake when stopped either, partly because I think it's very rude to the car behind, but mostly to avoid (a) glazing my brake pads and (b) warping my brake discs.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

The old Holden Kingswood had the handbrake on the right of the drivers seat. It worked as normal operation except when you let go of it after applying it the handle would then drop out of the way. ( It looked like it was off all the time) So you didn't bash your leg getting in or out of the car.

Releasing the handbrake meant simply pulling it back up to the top (no resistance on way up) and then when you felt it "bite" pull it a bit more and push the button in.

I'm NOT a button pusher myself. The ratchet is there for a reason.

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The Box said "Windows XP or better" ... So I installed Ubuntu

That's the way the parking brake is set up on some light aircraft - the Piper Warrior, for example. I had no problem getting used to it! The only thing on the aircraft was that even the parking brake was set by hydraulics. But the hydraulic pressure would seep away after a few hours, so it was always wise to use chocks!

I've always done:

Button in - pull lever - release button - pull lever up one click.

It's the way my driving instructor showed me, and it hasn't let me down yet!

It's a bit of a moot point, really - electronic leverless handbrakes are becoming very common these days and, in 5 years time, all cars will probably have them.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

For the distance to the car in front - you really only need a few good feet, (10), enough for you to easily vacate if required.
However I would have :

(traffic slowing with you)
controlled the traffic earlier to enable a good, gentle, and gradual, slow down of rear traffic long before I (and them slowed to a stop) stop,

(no visible traffic behind)
I would have, allowed a much longer slow up space or gap (5-10sec gap), and controlled from there - slowing as I approach the rear car, always allowing for the rear traffic to react to my control actions, Major vigilance.

(rear traffic becomes visible)
with gentle braking, and a slow creep up to the last queuing car, to allow that the rear traffic is not paying attention, and needs to be slowed (brought into check), under your control.

Then I would still be constantly vigilant, checking all about me using my mirrors and views for any likely impact from all directions. I would not leave my foot on the brake, as if you were to get hit - your whip lash injury is worse and so is your car damage, but if you leave your wheels turning towards your planned escape route, and release your brake, then if you get hit, you're off and out of harms way, with as little damage as possible. However far better that you have already driven off, in your preplanned direction! Pre-planning here is absolute key.

Well I am saddened by the thought that the driver skills may really start to be lost in my short life time. With modern technology are we really going to improve safety and ability by removing skills from the driver.
Is this to pacify the A to B drivers who want a gizmo car? How very sad.

I find that garages screw up my handbrake by yanking it on far too hard, it should be 7 clicks. Once learned you can then press the button, and check for stretch by counting clicks occasionally. I have found that the polyurethene, (plastic) can be damaged or it cracks, and so after a time I need to replace the handbrake for this reason, so I have spares - they are very simple to fit - takes about 30 minutes and that includes getting the tools ..

I cannot see how pressing the brake pedal in my car, makes any difference to the handbrake efficiency. The handbrake shoes are separate so I have not done that. I assume that your car has a different set up which interesting.
I worry about having ABS, never mind something that turns on your handbrake - imagine if that happened in mid overtake or mid corner - yeesh - very worrying. I like to be in total control, and would never rely on a chip! And I absolutely know that Paul would be whole-heartedly agreeing with me.
I suppose a swift snip to a few wires should sort out most of the non-sense (for me you understand). And as for the seat belt well you don't have to be 'in' the seatbelt, after all the States were clicking in the seat belt and then sat down and drove - that was in 1979 ! So that one is easily solved for the like s of garages etc. (Unless it is a weighted seat) ....

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

you are right to worry.
but the automotive industry worries for you, these are safety critical systems and a huge amount of effort goes into safety analysis and ensuring safe failure modes of such systems.

i've worked with/on ACC systems and collision mitigation systems (which in general i dislike) as well as electric park brake systems & lane departure warning systems (and yes, lane keeping too).
i think they all have their place, and can be useful if used correctly in the right situations.

if you want to worry some more then consider that the auto hold & pull laway functions on the audi are probably all based on the hydraulic system. i know BMW show the park brake lamp when you are just held on the hydraulics.. and then have to manage a hand over to the park brake proper at some point.

The BMW system uses hydraulics actuating the normal brakes to provide automatic parking brake function in traffic etc. This has to be switched on though and is not the default option. The default, when you are using the normal click on/click off handbrake function, is electromechanical and uses a separate system.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

My new jag has an auto handbrake, it makes me nervous (or did to start with)

I don't have to press a thing. Its an auto box and won't allow me to remove the ignition key if not left in park.

also auto lighyts and wipers....am i becoming a zombie?

I am here quoting an interested party who reads this forum ......
and would like to state the following.........

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I have read the forum on handbrake's with interest. As you are a promoter of safe use of motor vehicles, could I propose that you put a 'HEADER NOTE' on this forum advising drivers to read their manufacturer's handbook for the CORRECT use of the handbrake.

I have a Ford Focus and the book says 'DO NOT PRESS THE RELEASE BUTTON WHILE PULLING THE LEAVER UP'.
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Thank you 'M'

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

yaris...
when parking. , firmly apply the parking brake to avoid inadverant creepage.
To set: Pull up leaver. for better holding power, firstly depres the break pedal and hold it while setting the parking brake.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code