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It does sound like an excuse to me.

Even our IS guy wouldn't take that long.

I presume all that information is already in a single database.

surely a quick search on all subarus registered in the period and dumped onto csv would suffice for you.

It's common to conflate "the technology" with "the system" - often as a ruse, when one needs something to blame!

Getting the data is, as Lum says, just a little bit of SQL. But operating "the system" (e.g. the whole of the DVLA as one system, comprised of many interlocking systems of automation technology and human interaction) is another matter. That's where the hours get burned up.

OK, let's test your claims then, mmltonge. Show us (and explain) a small, correlated subquery (and no googling).

This is not because I don't trust you, of course!

Well, no reply to the email I sent yesterday.

19 more working days before I can write to the information comissioner

1. This is not an IT lesson and i'll not be bloody well typing out code to please someone who for some reason thinks i'd bother making this up
2. Please see schoolreportsonline.com for a break down of the system i've built for schools, and ontheroadcomputing.co.uk for my company website.

OK, chill out and try some others, then.

1. Why must any column referenced in a predicate in the search condition of a HAVING clause either be a grouping column, or must have an aggregate function applied to it? Here's a clue - the HAVING clause is to groups what the WHERE clause is to rows.

2. How does the hot back scheme on Oracle work, and must the database be in ARCHIVELOGMODE or NOARCHIVELOGMODE? What do those modes do?

PS: Those incompetent fools at the high end of the DVLA IT dept. know these things...

PPS: Those sites you wrote look great, by the way. Really good work, I have to say.

ontheroadcomputing.co.uk fails W3C CSS validation.

thanks i'll fix that - I changed some stuff yesterday which must have knocked it out of line with w3c standards

Valle - i'm glad you like the sites

FWIW, I can admit to not knowing either of those, 1 - i've not had to use the having clause to construct any apps i've written, therefore have had no cause to look it up - I will certainly investigate it now though incase it can be of benefit in the future. 2. None of my apps have used Oracle, I didn't go to uni and self taught myself all I know - so anything I've not needed to use, I don't know about.

This thread is not really meant to be about my programming ability though is it, I was making reference to my own ability as a reflection on how long it should take them to write one statement - regardless of whether that statement requires having clauses or whatever, it's one query and if they know all that stuff it should not (and definately will not) take them 6 days to complete.

I used to know someone who designed databases and IT systems for various government departments.

I asked him why all of the systems either failed or were vastly over time and budget?

His answer rang all too true:

"It's working with bloody civil servants! They design the specs for the system they want and give them to you. So, you design that, but then it turns out that the person who gave you the specs has moved, so now the person who took over his position says they are all wrong, and can we re-do it?

"Then he decides that he needs other people's input, so he organises meetings. Not to design the new specs, but to decide who should be on the committee to design the new specs.

"Of course, by this time it is already vastly over time and budget, but eventually they get the committee together and then after another delay they give you the new design for the specs. So you get on with it.

"But then several senior managers -who know nothing about computers or databases- decide they want to have an input and demand changes. Which you implement -after all, they ARE the customer- and very late and vastly over budget you trial the system. Which, because of all the changes and the bits that they asked to be added on, does not work properly.

"So you have to have teams of hardware and software engineers brought in, working out what conflicts have arisen.

And even at this stage the civil servants are still coming up with new pointless ideas for useless extra features!"

He was very, very cross about it, and the same thing happened on I think it was either 3 or 4 government IT projects he was involved in. Needless to say he bailed out and does not do them anymore!

_________________
www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

As much as you don't like it the time you have been quoted is not over the top, (although the search of the whole database is debatable) the design and testing and impact assessment phases must be followed. Even for something which on the face of it looks so simple.

I know ... it was "tonge in cheek", it to speak! The issue isn't the SQL, but the run-up to that, in terms of a new untried "business process" (as they would call it). They hate risk, and no matter how extremely tiny it may be, it's not as small as not doing it at all. The discussions to decide that would take 'til hell freezes over.

PS Again: You've done well to make those sites without training at Uni etc. You obviously have a real knack for the work. I wish I had the attention to detail and the artistic skills you have.

So basically they've managed to put a system in place that allows them to ignore the freedom of information act completely, since actually looking something up in their database is too risky.

Ahh well. 18 days to go.

Some people stress that there is a difference between "information" and "data", for example data could be processed to create information. The information may not exist "in it's own right".

Perhaps that's what we have here. You are asking DVLA to "create" information (how many cars are X and Y but not Z etc.) from the data for nothing.

Lum, (or anyone else for that matter) .............

I don't want to interfere with this post but I'd like a quick question please. Perhaps better on a seperate post I think. I'd like to know how I go about asking the DVLA a FOI question....Could someone do that for me? Thanks...

No they have put in place a system which prevents them from screwing up the database, or at least attempts to do so.

That's right. Imagine the boss giving a list of jobs to the data entry clerk that says:



But the clerk has a hangover, misreads it and types:



So long, DVLA database!

Actually, the integrity constraints might save the data, but it shows that risk is there in principle.

Generally you solve that problem by giving them a front end that can't delete stuff like that. I would hope that said front end lets them search on chassis number!

Maybe I'll just send them my logbook with my name changed to "Lum'); drop table vehicles;" like in this comic. And see if the civil servants there do what civil servants do best and just key it in blindly.

If you made the request, you should pay for the "front end", unless you can find a bunch of other people who need similar queries.

That's where I'd drive this, if I were you. As part of the “freedom of information act”, they are bound to tell you the information that they have on other “freedom of information act” requests - after all, that is information too. And they are bound to tell you their current business processes, and whether one already matches your request. Because business processes are informational as well!

So ask them those things. If they have a business process that already matches your request, it’s a no brainer – just tell them to engage it or the ombudsman (or whoever oversees compliance) will crimp their style, big time.

On the other hand, if they have no existing business process that can fulfill this request, then they may have many similar requests, in which case it is economic to divide the cost of your query by all the other parties with similar queries, bringing the cost in line with reality. Again, you can tell them to get on with the “bulk request”, which is at reduced cost per customer (the only meaningful measure), or else engage the compliance officer to sort them out.

Do let us know how you get on - I almost wish I was dealing with them!

How about the police? surely they'd need to get a cars info based on it's chassis number



Interesting, I may try that and see where it leads. Currently I'm still waiting for a reply to my last re-working of the request, I haven't updated the countdown since it's a weekend.

And if you wish you were dealing with them, please feel free to do so I'd appreciate any help I can get right now.