Safe Speed Forums

Nope, I'm coming from the other way; you're totally misrepresenting my argument.

I don't think its acceptable for cyclists to break the law and to jump red lights, even when they consider it "safe" to do so.

I apply the same reasoning to motorists who choose to speed when they consider it "safe" to do so.

How about you?

Do you think red light jumping can be done safely?

By reasoning you've got to draw the conclusion that people who consider it's OK for motorists to speed when they feel it is safe should also support cyclists who choose to jump red lights when they consider its safe to do so.

I agree, I too don't think it acceptable for motorists to choose to speed when they consider it safe to do so - if they get caught in such a situation (rather than blipping over the limit whilst driving safely) then I am largely unsympathetic to any complaints they may have.
I think you'll find that the official line of this campaign is not to promote the right of drivers to exceed the speed limit if they wish to do so, but to state, quite rightly, that such a choice is matter for the conscience of the individual concerned. Its stated somewhere in the pages on the main site. This is not the same as openly condoning deliberate speeding.
Some posters on here will argue against my stance as individuals and that of course is their right, we have the freedom to disagree with one another. But you need to differentiate between the opinion of an individual and the that which is adopted by the campaign.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Two traffic situations:

Two traffic police officers are sitting in their car, watching traffic.

They see a car accelerate to overtake another vehicle. It reaches 34mph for 30 seconds, then as soon as the manoeuvre is completed, the driver drops back down to a shade under 30 mph. One might comment to the other on the smooth way the driver overtook, they noticed he did the full MSM, thing. They do nothing else.

A traffic camera is at the side of the road.

It 'see's a car accelerate to overtake another vehicle. It reaches 34mph for 30 seconds, then as soon as the manoeuvre is completed,the driver drops back down to a shade under 30mph. Oops! He has been flashed. He gets a NIP, a £30 fine and 3 points for undertaking a perfectly safe action.

And this prosecution has not assisted road safety in any way.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Guy overtook me in a 30 a while back because I slowed down (and he was all over me for a good minute or so before this); he nearly took out a pram on the crossing I was slowing down for.

"Weepej" No I don,t advocate or condone ANYONE jumping red lights irrespective whether they are cyclists or vehicle drivers

As for speeding drivers I don,t condone or advocate that either but the difference is patently obvious (except to you "weepej") that if you come upon a vehicle (like your driving for instance) driving at a leisurely 20mph in a 30 zone you are a pain in the proverbial and if the road conditions are safe to drive at the legal limit then I have the right to pass you safely and also should be able to exceed the limit by 3 or 4 mph to pass you SAFELY and then drop back to the posted limit asap.

Read the Highway Code as it says you should drive at the CORRECT speed for the prevailing traffic and road conditions not at a ridiculous 20mph because you want to SAVE LIVES and 20mph in a road that has a 30 limit can be a recipe for causing accidents due to LACK OF PROGRESS

The object of what was said is simple so I will explain it in terms you might be able to comprehend!

There is nothing wrong in making progress even by using a bit of speed to pass the slower vehicle and then dropping back to the correct limit what the other post was saying was quite simply that a camera does not accept that the vehicle was passing a clown like you who drives at a slow speed thus delaying other drivers and no doubt causing frustration whereas a police officer would be able to distinguish what was happening.

I doubt if you can comprehend what this means as you are so "Pro-Camera" that you wouldn,t know sense if it hit you between the eyes!

I will ask you again the same question I asked some time ago which you still have not ANSWERED "How many cameras have caught UNINSURED / UNTAXED / UNROADWORTHY VEHICLES OR DRUNK / DANGEROUS DRIVERS" as obviously these are more of a danger to other motorists and pedestrians alike than the errant driver who inadvertantly strays over the limit by a few mph for 50 yards or so?

How many times a day as a professional lorry driver do you think I see idiots who are WELL BELOW the posted limit suddenly brake because they have seen a camera and to hell with what is following as they are that obsessed with watching the speedo they are not doing what they should be doing and keeping their eyes on the road ahead?

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"There But For The Grace of God Go I"

"He Who Ain,t Made Mistakes Ain,t Made Anything"

Spannernut

What you need to do is to consider that in this way:-

Did you cause the problem by your driving? If not, then that's OK.

The point you made is not relevant. Because in the examples I used there was nothing wrong with the driving of either driver.

And of course had the other driver gone through the crossing at a speed of below 30mph (but still too fast for the circumstances) the speed camera would not have noticed him.

Actually, you raise an interesting point. Should there be more signs indicating crossings? Or would this add to street clutter?

Perhaps all drivers should drive as if there might be a crossing if they are driving in an urban setting?

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

I think it's unfair that the penalty is different depending on what kind of engine you use to power the vehicle. (mechanical vs human)
Like that really matters?!


I'm afraid that's just not true. Those busy junctions still have the lights running all night and at other times when it is not busy.
And then there are the junctions which are seemingly never busy enough to warrant traffic lights, but they have them.

I have never even had any near misses when 'accidentally ignoring' red lights. Driving around Poole at night you get to the point where you just can't stop for every one any more, it's too wearing. You end up getting too angry for being stopped for no good reason. So it's safer to ignore them when you can see that the junction is free. (mostly signalised roundabouts)

I've moved out of Poole now. The restrictions and spy cameras are really getting too much.

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Andrew.

The answer already exists: Part time lights. Only used during busy times of the day. Why are there not more of them? Who can say?

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

No, it's much safer if people would just 'man-up' a little bit, stop making utterly feeble and pathetic excuses for poor behaviour, and observe road traffic signals properly.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

The pedestrian waiting at the pelican cannot cross because of these idiots though.

A good motorist or cyclist will consider how their act affected another by evaluating each ride or drive and seeking to improve skills.

For each red light - the other one will be at green and the person approaching may not be texting but be wanting to go catch on the green light. This person might by a another cyclist, a biker or a car driver. All will expect those on the red light to obey the rules.


It's why the courts can and do dish out 6 points if it goes to court and why we might consider a "reckless charge" to a cyclist here

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

In Switzerland - I understand they fine according to income whatever the offence. You can get a very stiff fine for jay-walking there I was aged 14 when I crossed on a red man and got collared by one of their policemen. Fortunately - he did not fine me - but I have never forgotten his stern words though

(Actually - I use him as a model when dealing with "customers" )




The problem though is that anything apporaching the green from a distance will speed up to get the lights. Traffic light cams which double as speed cams do cop a lot of this. Willi has managed to get an FOI from Manchester and on other area? on this one after reports from Jazz and Ju-Ju over the A580 "Monitron digitals" which have speed marks across the junction now.


The latter one? "Engineered Congestion"


- but sometimes they are there because some plan was passed for a building - which then never materialised. Of course, the build may go ahead later. You never know...



Good move. Shame 'cos it's quite a nice area.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I have two senarios for you too weepej :

You have an evil twin called Beelzepej

Beelzepej has an accident at 27 mph in a which wasn't his fault. You call it bad judgement, (or bad luck).

Beelzepej has an accident at 33 mph in a which wasn't his fault. This is also bad judgement but suddenly You call it speeding and it's all his fault. You think it wouldn't have happened if he were doing 27 mph or if it would it doesn't matter anyway because he wasn't speeding and that's all that matters.

Can you spot the common factor? Do you see the folly of your argument? (Now that is a stupid question)

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

A good minute is a long time to be tail-gated. You should have allowed the overtake long before.


OK - I will assume you are at 30 mph in the 30 mph. He's "in a hurry and sitting on your bumper"

So what if he overtakes you above the limit. His licence he's risking if there's a policeman lurking of a speed cam. He's out of your way and he has a clear vision of the crossing ahead too. (Tailgating - a as the gap does give a clearer vision as to what might be in front of the chap you wish to overtake You extend your "hard cool look ahead" to what's happening in front of the car in front and even in front of that one - if you understand what I'm getting at. Helps you plan the leapfrog over-take or the "all at once decision" safely too.

Always let the tailgater overtake you. Frustrating him all the more does catalyse incidents sometimes. Better to have the idiot in front than behind you





I usually find I see all the road signs.



But we usually do find more crossings in an urban setting.

But if there's a tailgater - let him pass. His decision to drive above the lolly. If he's seen by us - we know he's no "just over blipper"

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

No doubt "weepej" you have never had any "blameworthy" accidents yourself but you sure as hell have seen hundreds

_________________
"There But For The Grace of God Go I"

"He Who Ain,t Made Mistakes Ain,t Made Anything"

Spannernut

But he lives in London from what I deduce. We Northern folk are much pleasanter and better drivers ... and bikers.. and cyclists and walkers

I suspect though some cyclist or jay-walker catalysed all incidents though Just to be "controversial"

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Weepej .. I fear you are taking a criticism at you personally when in all honesty .. none meant. But you did argue or imply that the 10 mph driver on the motorway was"safe" and that a driver who would normally expect a car driver to be driving accordingly to the situation and flow of traffic would deserve prison if this resulted in a fatal collision.


And consider this logic now



Weepej. This driver mounted the pavement. Weaved across the roadway. He was just as lethal at 25mph as at any darned speed. You can kill at low speed. A toddler died the other day in a driveway. He ran towards his Papa's car entering driveway at low speed in that greeting which all Papa's know.. the one where they run at you and you catch and sweep up into big hug and lots of kisses . Hit head on bumper bar. Died.
Parents .. grandparents.. traumatised and my paternal heart goes out to them.




Apologies if you got wrong end of stickand thought I was "accusing" .. but I have not seen a post of yours before now which accepts this rather unfortunate fact.

I ride a bicycle. I love riding my bicycle.

I drive a car. I love driving my car


My wife also enjoys riding a motorbike.

Both of us drive and ride with due consideration to others. However we travel.. the speeds will fluctuate within a 3+/3- margin per the "toys"!


Neither of us use a mobile phone whilst driving.

Neither of us drive if we think "unfit to do so"

Both of us apply COAST values when on the road .. on foot./. on bike .. in car.

No one seeks to undermine or ridicule or"!threaten" another on any internet or other medium . I make this last comment to absolve Andreas and his chums, Krissi and her husband Mike to the dafter lurks and NOT you and hjeg2 or Flying Dodo or any other decent cyclist who does add an opinion here.

We know there are some really awful drivers out there. We hope they hit here if pinged and learn some COAST per the DIS etc courses.

We know there are some really dire cyclists who would be chavs in a car just the same.



But in fairness .. I seem to think you defended the cyclist who killed at 25 mph.

No defence. Man died. Cyclist was on the pavement and despite "learning difficulties" knew how to gear up a fancy bike to such high speed.

Nonsense and no sane person believes that in reality. For a chav.. he had a pretty good defence lawyer. How did he afford that. Ah.. I PAID the bill as for usual

I object to this somehow. I want my tax and contributions to help the real needy and not the types who can lie convincingly in a court and basically con their way out of bother. But then.. a real policeman spots the fibbles. Pee cee idiots don't and YOU weepej are just as much a victim of all this as the rest of us.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

The trouble is that Weepej has a simplistic view of life. Or depicts a simplistic view here...

Cyclist who kills at 25mph on pavement:

"ha,ha! Only cyclist! Never mind, eh?! Pedestrians? Cha! Bloody nuisances!"

"If you drive at 29.9mph and kill someone, jolly bad luck old sport!"
"If you driver at 30.1mph, and someone steps off pavement and falls into side of your car You evil!!! You speed freak!"

That is of course, not what Weepej says. But it is the message behind what he says.

I have two friends. Let's call then 20mph Phil, and 80mph Philipa.

Phil never speeds. Phil is, without a doubt, the worst driver I have ever travelled with. He is a menace.

Philipa, however, often breaches the speed limit (never in town though) and Philipa is an extremely safe driver.

Yet, according to Weepej, Phil would be the best driver, as he never exceeds the speed limit.

But it isn't so.

_________________
www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

I'm not particularly interested in cycling; if I see a cyclist, I adjust my speed and road positioning to suit, then pass at the earliest opportunity.

The number of road deaths attributable to exceeding the posted speed limit is <5% (DfT Stats).

:¦

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Simon

Utterly ridiculous pastiche there ThatsNews, especially the 29.9/30.1 mph bit and the nuisance peds on pavement bit.

What you actually mean is

"The number of road deaths attributed to exceeding the posted speed limit is <5% (DfT Stats)"

Like I say, a hard statistic to cross reference to the number of people who actually speed.