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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 21:50 
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This story has shades of my long running thread on PH which I called "Six of One.. Half Dozen of the Other" at the time .. :popcorn:

He thought he drove over rags.. and not a woman.

Oh .. she might just have been clinging to life. Regardless.. drunk.. binge drunkard... perhaps.. I am always obligated to save a life. I am not allowed to judge. I am not God. She may have survived.. I could be cynical .. darkly so.. with reason. :banghead:


Bolton News wrote:

Driver ran over mum as she lay in road
By Joanne Rowe

ON TRIAL: Estate car driver John Rosevere
A DRIVER who ran over and killed a young mum told police he thought he had driven over a pile of rags or a bin bag, a court heard.

John Rosevere said he only realised he had hit Val Sydall after hearing news reports about the accident.

At Bolton Crown Court yesterday, Rosevere, aged 61, of Westland Avenue, Farnworth, denied causing death by dangerous driving.

A jury heard how mother-of-two Miss Sydall, aged 32, had spent the afternoon of December 2, 2006, drinking lager and wine with family at the Market Hotel pub in Brackley Street, Farnworth.

She continued to drink during the evening at the home of her mother Susan Sydall in Westland Avenue.

At 10.15pm Miss Sydall and her partner of four years, Damian Glynn, left the house with their baby daughter Kelsey to walk to their home in nearby Hillside Avenue.







But Miss Sydall was drunk, having consumed more than three times the legal alcohol limit for driving and an argument began with Mr Glynn, the court heard.

Mr Glynn was pushing the pram in Greenhill Avenue and shouted at Miss Sydall, who was following behind, to go back to her mother's house.


DIED: Val Sydall
He did not see Miss Sydall again until he was woken by police at his home and told she had been taken to the Royal Bolton Hospital.

Adrian Farrow, prosecuting, told the court that her pelvis had been crushed, probably by the wheels of Rosevere's Daewoo Nubira estate car. Her injuries were so severe that doctors were unable to save her. After her family arrived at the hospital, her life-support machine was turned off.

The court heard that after the argument with Mr Glynn, Miss Sydall was spotted by several people staggering on and off the pavement at the junction of Greenhill Avenue and Buckley Lane.

On his drive home from his sister's house, Rosevere turned right from Buckley Lane into Greenhill Avenue and spotted an object, which he said he thought was a bin bag or rags, in the middle of the side road. But it was Miss Sydall lying in the carriageway near the junction.

Mr Farrow told the court: "Quite how she came to be there isn't clear."

The front-passenger side wheel of Rosevere's car struck Miss Sydall's body, pushing it a short distance before running over her.

Mr Farrow said: "Mr Rosevere didn't stop driving at any point and Val Sydall was dragged and rolled underneath the car."

A back wheel ran over her again and Rosevere's vehicle mounted a kerb as he continued driving.

Mr Farrow said: "He could have driven around her, but he took the deliberate decision to drive over what he knew was a substantial object in the road."

A short time later two women found the critically injured Miss Sydall in the road and called an ambulance.

The case is contining.

10:15am Tuesday 12th February 2008




I feel sorry for the driver. It was dark after all.

But having said that . I tend to look at anything obstructing the road as I do not want to damage my car after all. I stop .. if I had found she was unconscious due to drink.. I would have called ambulance and administered first aid to keep her alive till help arrived.


He was not expecting to come across a drunk like this. :popcorn:


But lurks in particular.. please be aware this is before the courts at present. :wink:


I do not at all think his driving was "dangerous".

Perhaps careless in that he did not realise the difference between rags and a body.

But in my original "six of one" thread.. the kid was very drunk. He was OTT speeding in a 30 mph zone.


He got points for "careless" - because she was drunk and out late at night

Her parents wept crocodile tears and persuaded the council to fund a speed cam at a nob-black spot.. which Drive safe administrate .. but concede the scam is not placed wisely. :popcorn: (Have FOI to confirm :wink:)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 01:12 
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From the GMP website:
http://www.gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/1090A8F072EA7957802573EF00686C4F.htm

Quote:
Man convicted of killing Bolton mum in collision (Bolton)

A 61-year-old man from Bolton has been found guilty of causing the death of a 32-year-old mother-of-two in December 2006.

John Rosevere (born 03/12/46) of Westland Avenue, Bolton was convicted of death by dangerous driving on Thursday 14 February 2008.

Shortly after 10.30pm on Sunday 2 December 2006 paramedics were called to Greenhill Avenue, just off Buckley Lane in Farnworth following reports that a woman was lying injured at the side of the road.

Valerie Syddall, known locally as Valerie Brown, age 32, of Hillside Avenue in Farnworth, was taken by ambulance to the Royal Bolton Hospital with serious injuries. She later died in hospital.

Valerie had spent that day with her family. Shortly after 10pm she was walking home with her partner when she decided to change her plans and join some of her family at a party at a nearby pub.

She left her partner on Greenhill Avenue, at the junction with Westland Avenue. A short time later she was seen walking at the junction of Buckley Lane and Greenhill Avenue.

Shortly after 10.30pm two women were driving along Greenhill Avenue when they saw what they believed to be rags lying in the road. When they looked closer they realised it was Valerie and contacted an ambulance.

A Home Office post mortem examination carried out after Valerie's death revealed that her injuries had been caused in a traffic collision.

Officers issued a number of media appeals for information about the collision and, following a call to the Bolton News, went to speak to John Rosevere.

When his car was examined it was found to have slight damage to the underside of the front skirting.

Rosevere was arrested in connection with the incident. He was interviewed on several occasions, giving a different account each time. In his final interview he admitted that he drove over Valerie and failed to report the collision. He was charged on 31 May 2007.

Detective Sergeant John Fellowes from Bolton CID said: "Valerie's death has had a devastating effect on her family and her children will now have to grow up without their mother.

"Had Rosevere stopped after the collision, it could have prevented a lot of unnecessary heartache for the family, as well as the local community.

"I hope now that now Valerie's family can take comfort that the man responsible for her death has come to justice, and start to move on with their lives."

Rosevere is due to be sentenced on 14 March 2008.


Are only car drivers to be held responsible for their actions :banghead:

I'm most disappointed by the DC's comments
"Had Rosevere stopped after the collision, it could have prevented a lot of unnecessary heartache for the family, as well as the local community."
In what way? A fatuous remark.

He goes on
"I hope now that now Valerie's family can take comfort that the man responsible for her death has come to justice, and start to move on with their lives."
So the all day drinking never came into then? What about her responsibilities as a Mother?? Sheesh!

Rosevere certainly displayed some very poor driving but- and I've said it in another thread - was he really 100% at fault, beyond all reasonable doubt? He should have stopped, because it should have been clear he hadn't hit some rags and needed to check his car at the very least.

But if she hadn't got herself in such a state as to end up lying oblivious in the road then she'd be alive. But seemingly she was absolved of her responsibilities as soon as she stepped into the road.

I don't feel much sorry for either of them. But finding a driver guilty of DBDD is these circumstances is wrong.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 01:46 
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Of course he should have stopped. He must have felt that whatever he drove over was not rags :roll:

As for the woman... :roll:


I suspect an alcoholic given the whole days reported in the pub. Desp ite the DS's "pee cee comments" - let's spell it as reality: the kids would have ended up in care eventually as a result of her binge drinking and neglect. Harsh comment? Truth usually is. :roll: But in fairness - he had to say "right things to the paper" :popcorn: Privately - I would bet he also knows the harsh reality of life with an alcoholic; :popcorn:

But having said that - had the driver been more alert - she'd still be drunk.. but alive and maybe able to kick her addiction if she so wished to. :popcorn: Her partner knew she was drunk as well. He should have at least made sure she got home safely despite the drunken argument.

Have little sympathy for any in this case in reality. :roll: Pray God the woman's baby grows up aware of the dangers of too much booze,...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 16:55 
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How sad too, that none of the witnesses didn't offer her any help! Even calling the Police to get her some assistance at least ! :-(
I too feel for the driver, but he equally should never just driver over anything.
When I was a kid there was a story about a kid that for fun was in a small barrel type object which rolled down the garden, then into the road - and bang! dead. I think of that when I see things in the road - plus I also (too) want to avoid hitting my car.
To look for the escape route is an art, and so deliberately look away from the object to the 'exit route', - BUT people do 'look where they are driving'. It has been shown/proven, that people have literally chased people up embankments, 'driving where they are looking', without really being aware of it! :shock:
So he 'looked' at the 'object' and drove, towards it - he wasn't really thinking at all, and just aimlessly, hit it.
He needed to be made to 'think' and be a responsible driver .... before he chose to drive over it .... still he was probably safe as he was under the speed limit - right !!!!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 20:13 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
How sad too, that none of the witnesses didn't offer her any help! Even calling the Police to get her some assistance at least ! :-(
I too feel for the driver, but he equally should never just driver over anything.
When I was a kid there was a story about a kid that for fun was in a small barrel type object which rolled down the garden, then into the road - and bang! dead. I think of that when I see things in the road - plus I also (too) want to avoid hitting my car.
To look for the escape route is an art, and so deliberately look away from the object to the 'exit route', - BUT people do 'look where they are driving'. It has been shown/proven, that people have literally chased people up embankments, 'driving where they are looking', without really being aware of it! :shock:
So he 'looked' at the 'object' and drove, towards it - he wasn't really thinking at all, and just aimlessly, hit it.
He needed to be made to 'think' and be a responsible driver .... before he chose to drive over it .... still he was probably safe as he was under the speed limit - right !!!!!!


The article seems to suggest he had a choice and decided to drive over the "obstacle". What is there to support this?

Depends on a lot of things, like how visable she was, dark clothing at night etc. Often debri in the road only becomes apparant at the last moment, forcing you into an immediate reaction, there is no time for a decision. Some people instinctively swerve, some instinctively prefer not to steer their car where their mind hasn't already visited- which includes me. Modern cars handle evan high speed puntures very well, they also handle unexpected impacts relatively well but I know which one I'd prefer.

As for not stopping, I guess it seems you'd know know if you'd just driven over something that substancial, or would you, with all the speed bumps/pot holes/etc etc etc, I'd say we're fairly conditined to accept bumps and crashes. And also, where did this occur? If it was some rough housing estate at whatever o'clock at night I'd be inclined to drive on and inspect for damage somewhere I know there might not be a pack of feral kids hiding behind a car waiting for the next victim of their "prank"... or carjackers...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 17:08 
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Mind you, he hit something so substantial that it slewed his car and made him mount the pavement?

I think he convinced himself he had not hit a person.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 18:10 
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Bolton press added a little more to this story - but somehow I think a bit unfair to this person even though he did not feel or even notice that he had driven over a person who had slumped into the roadway in a drunken stupor. (Hospital statistics would appear to confirm that drunk pedestrians account for many a BID statistic or SI statistic. :roll: )

But it seems this driver had already been in bother for running over someone.. as a learner driver about 20 years ago per the paper's article. I happen to think this was uncalled for sensationalism on the part of the press. This was not the same thing as his reversing into someone 20 years ago -whatever - after all.


It was a dark winter evening. He was perhaps pre-occupied with Christmas rush .. to try to understand his state of mind and be fair minded towards him. She had spent the best part of the day drinking herself senseless. She had a drunken argument and stormed off per the report. She probably passed out because of the amount of alcohol consumed. She appears to have had a serious drink problem.

He perhaps genuinely thought rags in the road initially.. but he should have realised and noticed that it was a person as he came nearer to this "hazard" for want of a better word. Most of us avoid things which can damage our cars or drive around some obstacle. But these days of car-jacking... :scratchchin: also makes some afraid of stopping to check.

Maybe he went into denial and maybe was afraid of reporting and facing this - because of what happened all those years ago.

Difficult to find much sympathy really. As for the lady.. a drink problem and so sad that she died that way as a result.

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It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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