Safe Speed Forums

Just had lurky on C+ to see if our new cat has appeared yet! Yoh- 50 more where she came from! (and one appears to be missing our Krissi Awwwwwww!) Apparently - they think she's miaowing "victory!" (per a thread on the Office bit of the site - ) Such odd folks! Hope I don't come over all odd like on me bike!

Ru88ell on C+ has posted this on the site - from his IAM newsletter. For once they seemed chuffed with the IAM

To cuddy duck ... I can sum it up in one word:

C O A S T

Well - they are clamouring to put this on here - so I will beat 'em to it

Actually - old I-G touched on it in his "Planning" Part One scenario. (He threw a cyclist into the plot! )

SHARING THE ROAD WITH CYCLISTS!

Cyclists travel at different speeds and have different levels of road experience. As a driver, you will need to take care to judge their speed as well as the road and weather conditions from the cylsist's point of view. Remember too that some cyclists, particularly younger ones, have never driven a car and so do not realise the dangers they pose to drivers.

A certain tame cat did mention this in passing back in December - but the thread is now deleted. Was in her COAST one and in her comments about being seen....

In an accident, whoever is to blame, the cyclsit will always be the one more vulnerable to a serious injury.


The following tips for motorists hve been prepared with the National Cycling Strategy Board to avoid adding to the 2500 cyclists killed and injured each year. Cyclists don't have the steel armour around them like we do. Passing them at speed within a foot of their elbow may feel perfectly safe from where you are, but is very disconcerting for the cyclist.

Sounding your horn when you are close may startle them and cause them to swerve in front of you.

Why NTC suggested campaigning to keep cyclists lit up get the visibility message across. We see you about 3 seconds earlier if there is a decent light or a light coloured item of clothing. Every little helps (to quote the supermarket!) And why she throttled up on COAST

They will usually be ahead of you. Slow down and drive smoothly. Keep within the speed limit.

COAST /IAM/ experienced and considerate majority of drivers tend to!


In traffic make sure you do not cut up a cyclist who is about to pass you on the nearside/ Don't try to cut up a cyclist when you wish to turn left at a junction. Wait until the cyclist has either turned left or ridden past the junction.

um - COAST skills

Park with care and prevent any passnegers from opening the door until you are sure there are no cyclists coming on either side. Likewise, check over your shoulder to make sure.

Cyclists are advised to take a prominent position in the road well ahead of any manoeuvre to make sure they in the right place at the right time.

If they have Cycling Proficiency and read CycleCraft - they might! How many out there actually heard of these! Advice: read the book and do the course!

If they ride in the middle of the road - it is not to obsruct your path, but to ensure they are seen by you and other motorists hint - lights help at night

Cyclists often ride at some distance from the kerb to avoid drains and potholes COAST aware drivers would be scanning the road surface anyway. and to discourage drivers squeezing them on narrow roads.

We have met the numpties who do this when on the bike and in the car. If I am about to lose the argument with a car driver whilst on my bike - I just admit defeat! But does not happen often.

It is not in their interest to delay the driver deliberately. Remember too that their ability to signal is limited compared to ours, try to anticipate what they might do from their position on the road (COAST! )

Please be patient (er ... Kriss's PARC?) (Patience, Anticipation, Responsibility, Courtesy...)

Advance stop lines are for cyclists alone and should be respecte. so leave space between the two sets of stop lines empty, whether or not cyclists are occupying it when you arrive. Be aware of where cycle lanes terminate because this means road space is more scarce and this can make a cyclist more vulnerable. Unless you are in Ambleside ... grrrrrr! Where the lane was designed by a pillock Grrrrr!

Give young riders even more space than older ones; bot young and old swerve to avoid debris or potholes, but young people ware more prone to forget your presence when they do.

Remember to use your mirrors (COAST!) with extra care when changing direction when cyclsits are about. There might be a cyclist in your blind spot. Pay particular attention at roundabouts as many accidents occur to cyclists at these junctions. Always signal at roundabouts. (Still COAST! )

Finally... every motorist has seen some irresponsible cyclists (and Krissi met them all in one week! ) who use the pavement, road and zebra crossing seemingly at random. This is not only dangerous to pedestrians ( They forgot the horse! ) but unlawful. The police can and do issue penalty notices for this if they see it - but we don't have scameras for cyclists ... yet

The police take a serious view of careless or danggerous cycling, particuarly when it puts other road users at risk. Responsible motorists give such cyclists a wide berth.

Poor old Mike tried to - but he was stationary at the time..

An interesting piece and most of the C+ folks appear to be supportive of this article.

I agree with it. especially since the basic points are telling folks to concentrate, observe, anticipate, give psace and time - and it is all on this site in the "Driver Improvement Forum" where this should be posted - but Paul can click the button!


I also not that one poster would like this IAM message passed to every motorist.

Well - that is exactly what Kriss did suggest with COAST and why we plug it so much.

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Some good stuff there Moggie mate. Nice to know there is a sensible majority of pedalheads let down by a few idiots.

But...
Okay, I'm not a cyclist but I can't imagine why I'd want to use some of these. Okay if it's at a T junction and pedal-person wants to turn right, but round here they all seem to be where a right turn is physically impossible unless mountain bikes can now climb brick walls. All that it seems to achieve is to encourage slow and vulnerable road users to place themselves in front of something a lot faster and heavier while they wait for the lights to change. As a lycra lover you tell me if I'm missing something there.

Again, round here they do not seem start or stop because of changes in road space. For a long time I've suspected the local cycle lanes stop where they do because that's where the paint ran out. Why they start where they do is anyone's guess. We've got one that goes off the pavement onto the road and up to traffic lights, reducing the near side lane at that point to rather less than the width of a normal car. Oh, and it does this at a point just after a new bus lane stops. In other words, this layout could almost be designed to bring cyclists into confilct (the intensive care kind rather than the verbal abuse kind) with cars and buses. In fact, it's so stupid I don't think my description does it justice. I'll get a picture when I'm up and about again.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Mixed opinions amongst seasoned cyclists about advance stop lines. The logic over cycling lanes in some places is non-existent. Thy have some kind of target to achieve over the number of cycle lanes - I am sure they paint them anywhere just to get the mileage target.

Have lurked on C+ to check reaction to this. One of them says it should be part of the L-test.

Errrr! It is covererd in HP and Theory.

Not brilliantly as you will see from the examples of the questions asked!

From Question Bank:

Photo of cyclist (with rear basket full of shopping) passing line of parked vehicles:

You are asked what the main hazard is:

A The cyclist may move to the left and dismount
B The cyclist may swerve out into the road
C The contents of the cylcist'scarrier may fall into the road
D The cyclist may wish to turn right at the end of the road

Then in "Vulnerable Road Users:

There is the one about the HORSE!

You see horse riders ahead. What should you do FIRST?

A. Pull out into the middle of the road
B Be prepared to slow down
C Accelerate around them
D Signal right.

You are approaching a roundabout and see horse riders ahead

You should

A be prepared to stop
B treat them like any other vehicle
C give them plenty of room
D accelerate past as quickly as possib;e
E sound your horn as a warning


Which THREE things should you do when passing sheep on a road?

A Allow plenty of room
B Go very slowly
C Pass quickly but quietly
D Be ready to stop
E Sound your horn at them


You are following a car driven by an elderly driver You should

A expect the driver to drive badly
B flash your lights and overtake
C Be aware that the driver's reactions may not be as fast as yours
D stay very close behind but be careful


No I am not making these up nor spoofing - these appear in the DSA/RAC/AA Theory Test Question Bank and these do appear at random on the test.

How can anyone [i] fail


Bit like those competitions on GMTV in a morning!

These are the cyclist ones:

You are following a cyclist. You wish to turn left ahead.

You should

A overtake the cyclsit before the junction
B pull alongside the cyclist and stay level until after the junction
C hold back until the cyclist has passed the junction
D go around the cyclist at the junction

(interchanges with horserider)
a cyclist is in the left hand lane approaching a roundabout. You should expect the rider to

A go in any direction
B turn right
C turn left
D go ahead.

You see a cyclist as you approach a roundabout. He is signalling right but keeping to the left.

You should

A proceed as normal
B keep close to him
C cut in front of him
D stay well back

You should never attempt to overtake a cyclist

A just before you turn left
B on a left hand bend
C on a one-way street
D on a dual carriageway

You are driving past a line of parked cars and notice a wheel of a bicycle sticking out between them. What should you do?

A Accelerate past quickly - sounding your horn
B Slow down and wave the cyclist across
C Brake sharply and flash your headlights
D Slow down and be prepared to stop for the cyclist.


As you can see - the standard is not exactly challenging - and I do wonder how anyone can fail this test.

But - it is covered and tested in theory. On a practical test - they may or may not come into contact and have to demonstrate they can cope with such hazards - but too often they don't.

Hence - the idea of a periodic theory and practical check-up every so often - graded perhaps would help keep people COAST aware at al times.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I can't understand those advanced stop lines for cyclists. I love cycling but I really think encouraging bikes to overtake stationary cars that have just overtaken the bike, just so that the cars will end up stuck behind the bike again, is madness!

Nope mate - not missing anything out. I hate the things as a driver and cyclist. Tend not to use them but just pedal up and stop as if they were not there. This seems to encourage the driver to keep a good position as well. They are OK if I wish to turn right - and lights are staggered or filtered for a right turn. But this is rare in most towns.

But basically - am a weekend country "muesli muncher" (and not every weekend as I play golf in summer (use car or Wildy takes me!) and rugby in winter (tend to ride bike to matches) when I can) .



C+ do have a "rogues' gallery" of dodgy cycle lanes....somewhere on the site. The authorities definitely lost the elastic in their lycra when they designed some of those... and I thought Ambleside was bad.... (There are others in other villages around here - and it has just increased the dangers to all road users. Madness!

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

As a sometime PSV driver the logic used of making bus lanes as wide as buses & then allowing cyclists to use them has always escaped me.
Very often cyclists travel slower than the traffic that the bus lane is helping the bus avoid & thus by a mixture of design & allowed user actually makes the PSV travel slower than the traffic as the bus is unable to overtake the cyclist.
Also the logic of placing one of the roads most venerable with one of the city's largest vehicles within a very narrow lane has never really seemed that logical.
Also add to advanced stop lines, cycle lanes at the side of the road at Bus stops, WHATS THE POINT ?. OK buses only stop there for a few minutes per hour but having been reported, (I kid you not,) by a cyclist for stopping at a bus stop, at the kerb, in a cycle lane, the cyclists view being I should have stopped in the road & dropped my passengers off outside of cycle lane . I find it difficult to appreciate the humour involved in such road planning.

Warrington Cycle Campaign's Facility of the Month fits the bill, I think

Mind you, they also have some things on their "good practice" page which would qualify as motor vehicle facility of the month, e.g. one-laning dual carriageways

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Assuming you are travelling at the normal 'road' speed, surely the correct answer is NONE of the above. You should SLOW DOWN - period.

Otherwise what? Carry on past at unadjusted road speed?

Absolutely. Well spotted.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Exactly... the standard of the test and questions - appalling!

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I was (many years ago ) a very keen bike ( as in pedal ) rider. Now i find and i pass it on as i notice no one has mentioned it that the modern cyclist seems to have a love of trying to undertake vehicles - especially at traffic lights - i now after passing a cyclist and approcahing traffic lights make sure that pedal idiot cannot get between my vehicle and kerb by getting as close to kerb as possible - not being vindictive - some cyclists seem to have a kamikazi streak, and think " i can see the car - he can see me" without realizing that sometimes there is a blind spot on the rear passenger side of cars, never mind vans

IN OTHER WORDS - AFTER PASSING CYCLIST AND ON APPROACH TO TRAFFIC LIGHTS - REGARD CYCLIST AS UTTER IDIOT DETERMINED TO GET SQUASHED ON REAR QUARTER OF YOUR VEHICLE AND CLOSE DOWN GAP TO PREVENT HIS ACCESS.

Sorry , cyclist - id sooner have 1000 swear at me than hit one who got into my blind spot.

Advanced driving as proved through years - treat other road users as idiots

IN ADVANCE

I was (many years ago ) a very keen bike ( as in pedal ) rider. Now i find and i pass it on as i notice no one has mentioned it that the modern cyclist seems to have a love of trying to undertake vehicles - especially at traffic lights - i now after passing a cyclist and approcahing traffic lights make sure that pedal idiot cannot get between my vehicle and kerb by getting as close to kerb as possible - not being vindictive - some cyclists seem to have a kamikazi streak, and think " i can see the car - he can see me" without realizing that sometimes there is a blind spot on the rear passenger side of cars, never mind vans

IN OTHER WORDS - AFTER PASSING CYCLIST AND ON APPROACH TO TRAFFIC LIGHTS - REGARD CYCLIST AS UTTER IDIOT DETERMINED TO GET SQUASHED ON REAR QUARTER OF YOUR VEHICLE AND CLOSE DOWN GAP TO PREVENT HIS ACCESS.

Sorry , cyclist - id sooner have 1000 swear at me than hit one who got into my blind spot.

Advanced driving as proved through years - treat other road users as idiots

IN ADVANCE

Are you saying then that a cyclist should wait in line at traffic lights and stay in the middle of the lane and form a queue behind the car in front?

I understand were you're coming from Botach, and I'd much rather overtake on the right hand side, but I've always been under the impression that it is still legal to undertake cars on the left. Perhaps someone could correct me if I'm wrong?

Flying Dodo, I took it to mean that Botach wanted cyclists to overtake on the right rather than the left. I could be wrong though!

FD- I was commenting on dangerous habit of cyclists of trying to undertake stationary traffic on the approach to traffic lights - for their own safety - all they have to do is get in blindspot ( roundabout rear passenger quarter) as traffic moves off and bang - one dented cyclist.
P- undertaking ? legal? - dont know about that - but the last place you would catch me on two wheels is between the kerb and a vehicle - too many idiots that dont look in nearside mirror and interior mirror dont always see rear quarter..

Botach - potentially there can be a pinch point at roundabouts, where a car going round to take the first exit will often move across, so a cyclist going round the kerb could get clipped by a car.

However with regards undertaking stationary traffic approaching traffic lights, how can that be a problem? When they move off, any cars will continue to move in the same direction within the lane, and there wouldn't be any reason for a car to move towards the kerb and so go into any cyclist coming up the inside.

Where I am, there aren't any Advanced Stop Lines anyway, but when I'm cycling and come up to a line of traffic, then I'll go up the inside unless it seems there's too small a gap and it's a long line of traffic which won't all get through before the lights change again, in which case I'll go down the outside. If I've gone down the inside and the lights are still at red, I'll go right up to the line, so that I'm slightly ahead of the front car, or at least level with the front wing, so the driver can see me.

If the cars start moving off whilst I'm going down the inside, then I just position myself behind the next car in front which is about to start moving. I'm not sure why you think a cylist would get squashed by the rear quarter of the car, as the car is mainly in front. It's potentially more of a problem by the car behind me deciding to move across towards the kerb a bit as the traffic moves off, which I've only found an issue at the very entrance to a roundabout.

In single carriageway roads, unless I am turning right, I tend to position myself as far to the left as reasonably practicable when queueing at lights. This applies if I'm front or rear or anywhere else in the queue. It does annoy some cyclists - some sufficiently so to swing a kick at my car as they move to the outside to pass me and then cut back in. But my motive is to leave the centre of the road as clear as possible for any emergency vehicles. It also has the benefit (if I'm at the front) of preventing cyclists from getting clipped by a left-turner with the cycle coming up the inside going straight on.

Should I move out and make way for gutter-crawling cyclists? I do seem to be in a minority.

Roger, sems we are in minority - my main objective is to stop cyclists committing hari kari either as i said by cycling down rear quarter or racing through on inside to meet the side of a left turner. leaving time for looking out for idiots trying to cross road.


By keeping close to the gutter i know no cyclist can get in my blind spot -

IN OTHER WORDS DIRECT THE THREAT TO AN AREA WHERE IT CAN DO LEAST HARM

and i can concentrate more on hari kari pedestrians and lane changers .

I agree, I don't think cyclists should overtake lines of stationary cars on the left unless there is a cycle lane.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

In the car - I tend to hold back until sure of the cyclist's intentions. If cycling around roundabout myself - tend to either cheat and go through underpass or walk with bike on pavements if they exist. If not - then I am very careful and make sure motorists are left in no doubt as to which direction I intend to take. Unfortunately, not all cyclists co-operate with drivers.




Once had a cyclist trying to beat the Jag away at the lights .



I tend to cut my losses on this. I would not go down the outside as this might bring me too close to oncoming traffic. Also - if there are two lanes of standing traffic - cannot guarantee someone may not change lanes at the lights and hit me. They would not necessarily be exapect a pedal cyclist to filter. Motorbike, arguably, they'd hear. (Wildy, Kriss, IG and the rest of the Swiss mob are bikers as well! ) But then - I only really ride the bike around my locality and certainly would not commute on it - it's too far (about 50 miles - and I am not based at just one hospital either - and am required to lecture, occasionally, undergraduates about my specialism as well.) I like to play with my youngest children and chat to my older children when I get home from work - could not do that if I cycled such distances! .



I find this to be the case too. I do as you do as well here!

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.