Safe Speed Forums

Cooler I don't understand - you've come on here to ask peoples opinions on L2 hogging, only to ignore all suggestions that L2 hogging is both potentially dangerous and extremly frustrating for other drivers and then you are openly bragging about sitting in the middle lane on relatively quiet motorways, on busy motorways and everything in between.

In my eyes that makes you an awful motorway driver, you have no road manners and no lane awareness - despite how humourous a slant you try to put on it drivers like you are a pain in the arse on motorways, nothing else to it. Get over as soon as you can, dont be a dick about it and certainly dont be pathetic and 'scared' of being boxed in, if you can drive well you will be able to manouver back into L2 when you need to go round a lorry or slower vehicle.

Something tells me this one's going to run and run.

middle lane debates do tend to run and run.

Someone earlier mentioned "forward planning" - I think there is a sector of the driving population who hear the word "forward" and confuse it with "in front". Forward planning when using all of the lanes on the motorway (I've PAID for all 3 lanes, I'm going to USE them!) actually requires attention both forward and backwards. If you can manage that, then there is no danger of being boxed in. Of course that requires thinking and skill, whereas sitting in Lane 2 is the idiot's easy life option. Such drivers are neglecting the A in COAST, and like all skills, if you do not excercise it, you will lose it.

Re: empty motorways, I don't have so much of an issue with MLM's, as long as they are paying attention both fore and aft and move back to L1 as traffic approaches. I don't do this myself (I am a Lane 1 driver on an empty road) but I can understand why some drivers may see L2 as the safest one - it's the one with "escape routes" on both sides if something unexpected appears in front. I prefer Lane 1 in those circumstances though, because I beleive the most likely source of something unexpected on most motorways will be the opposite carrigeway?

_________________
COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Without knowing the relative speeds of the vehicles on that photo it is impossible to tell whether the Rover driver is doing anything wrong. If he is gaining appreciably on the vehicle in Lane 1, which is clearly well within his sights, then I would suggest his behaviour is entirely reasonable.

It serves no purpose - and is potentially dangerous - to bob back into Lane 1 for a few seconds just to make a point.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

True. The photo in itself doesn't prove anything. But I do see plenty of people in that sort of position who are not gaining on the vehicle in L1 (at least not by more than 0.5mph). They're halving the number of available overtaking lanes at a busy time for no reason.


I agree. I wouldn't normally expect someone to go into L1 unless they were going to be there for at least 10 seconds.

_________________
Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

errrr ok if you like.

it was a focus s-max (c-max? something like that) and the cruise control max'd out at 190kph (dial went to 220ish ?).

it was quite stable, no the steering didn't go particularly light.
obviously i wouldn't be happy at that speed on even a moderately busy autobahn but it was quiet, barely even any trucks. road was dry, weather was clear, sunny & still.

we were driving from dusseldorf to papenburg test track in the far north.

my colleague who took the audi left at the same time and was waiting at the gate finishing his sandwiches.

your turn ????

10 seconds is the yardstick given my my advanced driving instructor (rospa).

i still count to 10 when i pull into L1 as force of habit.

Ed,

The focus is a pretty light car for those speeds, so the stability shows good design IMO. I have seen 135mph on my Saab. It gets there pretty quick, with some wheel judder around 90mph and then smooth as silk all the way up. It does feel fast though. The limiter is at 142mph but it may need a slight gradient or at least a tailwind to get there. The steering lightens a little but not significant; unlike the old TVR which almost took off above 100mph!

Sounds like you had great conditions for your run.

c.

NB - By the way, my runs were not on UK public roads.

mm,

I do enjoy a little devil's advocation.

Now, in your post you have used the words 'bragging', 'pain in the arse', 'dick', 'pathetic' and 'scared'. Sorry to have provoked you to this language.

Here is my question. If I am travelling in the middle lane at 70mph, and a car comes up behind me flashing it's lights, why doesn't it overtake? There is still L3 available so why not use it? My suspicion is that these drivers who flashed me had some anger/dominance issues, particularly the guy who took both hands off the wheel (at 70mph) just to make obscene gestures. Not a nice man.

C.

I tend to avoid L1 if possible, and would judge using L1 by traffic conditions rather than time. In the Rover photo there is a nice bit of flat 'newish' L1, rather than the 'twin-ruts' I've often seen; no doubt why one sees fewer bikers nowadays.

Generally, I consider that too many people slavishly follow the 'highway code' rather than using experience and common sense. For example, it amazes me the number of cars I see moving dutifully into the 'empty' L1 as cars filter off at a busy junction, & then, by their actions, seem extremely surprised when cars appear at the other side of the junction, wanting to join the M-Way.

From a legal/highway code guidelines point of view, they shouldn't need to use L3 because you shouldn't be in L2.

From a safety/consideration for other motorists point of view, you shouldn't be forcing a faster-moving vehicle to make an unnecessary lane change.


I'm not a rabid lane-disciplinarian, and I don't subscribe to the idea that you MUST move over as soon as safely possible irrespective of what's going on around you, but not moving over when there's a faster moving vehicle behind you is one of the indications I use to predict whether a driver is aware of their surroundings or driving on autopilot.

_________________
Chris

Twister,

If I am driving at 70mph in L2 then it is not possible for a vehicle to legally overtake me, so the point isn't really relevant IMHO.

C.

z,

Me too.

C.

They guy may very well have had anger management issues, but it was YOUR behaviour that elicited the response you got....ergo, you were to blame for that situation.



It is also illegal to rob banks, but I bet you wouldn't stand in front of the man waving the sawn-off around advising him of his obligations to comply with the law.

Once again it doesn't matter what other people are doing, unless you are a police officer then it is NOT your job to ensure that others are abiding by the law.

For all you know, the guy behind could have had a sick child on the back seat who was in dire need of getting to hospital as soon as possible and your actions were impeding that child from being saved.

_________________
What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Sorry, but IMHO that doesn't matter. The principles of good and courteous driving don't change depending on whether other people are exceeding the speed limit. Good, courteous driving is immediately obvious to me; I don't need to determine the speed limit and the speed everyone is driving at first.

If you want to keep to 70mph, that's entirely up to you, but other than that, I think you and everyone else should drive as if you were on an unrestricted Autobahn. Apart from anything, there may be an unmarked police vehicle wishing to overtake you, which may (for some reason) not want to reveal itself with blue lights. Or someone may be driving their pregnant wife to hospital. You don't know.

But that's not really the point. It's not for you (or anyone except the police) to be judging whether the behaviour of others is legal and treating them differently depending on that (unless they're actually being aggressive or threatening towards you of course). That doesn't seem like defensive driving to me. And people should be adapting their driving to reality, rather than what in theory should happen; thus, if many drivers are exceeding the motorway speed limit (and doing it safely), that's what we should be dealing with, rather than saying "I can do whatever I want because this shouldn't be happening".

_________________
Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Gixxer,

I don't think that your analogy holds. By cruising at 70mph in the middle lane I am not advising a speeder to do anything. I do confess that I am inviting said speeder to change lanes in an overtaking manouvre, which doesn't seem like much of a hardship for someone intent on breaking the law of the land.

Also, there are questions of economy and ecology at stake here. When I have been obliged by a headlight flasher to pull over in the past, I have often been required to decelerate shortly after due to slower traffic and then accelerate back out again. This costs me extra fuel, and contributes to CO2 pollution. My car works much more efficiently at a steady cruising speed.

So, by holding my ground in the middle lane, I am both benefiting my bank account and helping to save the planet!

C.

Refer to the "A" in COAST.

_________________
COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Of course my analogy holds, whether the offence is exceeding the speed limit or armed robbery makes no difference (the law is the law after all).
You stated "If I am driving at 70mph in L2 then it is not possible for a vehicle to legally overtake me". It is not legally possible for someone to hold up a bank either although as I said earlier, I bet you wouldn't be so keen to stop them.


Oh please, the miniscule changes to your fuel consumption & CO2 output wouldn't even be noticable.
However if you really are that worried about saving the planet, then why are you even driving at all?

_________________
What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Gixxer,

You seem to be implying that by travelling at 70mph in L2 of a motorway I am doing something to someone else, stopping them in some way. Not so; they are free to overtake.

But there is another point at issue here. By flashing their lights and waving at me a driver behind is making a judgement about my available road positions and options, and this is not their call to make. It is up to me to decide whether it is appropriate to make a lane change, not another driver. This is similar to the old problem of people waving us on, and then we have an accident - but of course it's not their problem it's ours.

If I react to a gesticulating driver and then have an accident, it is not that driver's problem but mine. There is no way that I am going to endanger myself and my passengers because of some roadhog giving me a hard time. I'm sure that anyone would agree with this point.

This is all about taking responsibility for our own driving, not the driving of others.

C.

Can a mod not shut this topic? He's evidently not interested in a reasoned debate, people gave him answers and reasonable explanation, he ignored it all (which, I regret led me to anger) and asked the same question again, we've gone through it again and he continues to fail to acknowledge he is quite clearly in the wrong in his actions.

This thread is not about finding something out, nor having a reasoned debate - it's about antagonising others by acting the fool and bragging about driving like a moron