Safe Speed Forums

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

30 -40 hours of coaching ,Scanny - perhaps time to pack in trucking and become a self employed driving instructor - but then how many will be able to afford a licence .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

that was the RACs arguement against increasing the amount of training required for taking a driving test and for making it harder. too many people couldnt afford it so they would drive illegally.
my response to that is, at least they can be caught driving illegally. if they pass an inadequete test then they are legally allowed on the road no matter how crap the are at driving

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Is this story being trotted out now because the road death figures comming out in a weeks time are dismal?

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Perhaps the way forward is to look at events of the past -in my era ,presumably yours
(not you personally ,as you ,from what I read are ex army and been HGVing since 18) --it wasn't uncommon for family mentor ship to take place,driving school or not .What we need is something to take it's place - perhaps a condition of getting a licence is compulsory display of P plates and to keep licence passing something like pass plus within a short time ,perhaps with a mentor present till they pass the pass plus.What is needed is incentive to be a better driver-more carrots ,not more sticks .But then this idea could also be seen as an extension of the force people into public transport idea,or indeed as Anton says , because the governments road safety policy is now a road disaster policy .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I read the article. I didn't realise the word "coaching" was anything other than another word for "instructing". However, I am not going to talk about the article in question, instead the comments left after the article. There were two highly ignorant comments which struck me:

The driving age should be atleast 21 ( )

It is fairly obvious that this was written by a silly old fart who is bitter and knows nothing about youngsters anymore. Why the heck raise the driving age? What is that going to achieve? Listen mate, if that happens then you are going to see the country that you remember from the war days diminish into nothing but a bunch of old farts like yourself milling around Education is the key to getting good drivers.

The cars should have a horsepower limit ( )

Again, these are silly old codgers who are out of touch with the people today and clearly have no idea what they are rambling on about. Do you know what the average teenager is driving around in? A 1200cc Fiesta with about 40 horsepower, yet they can still expect to pay upwards of £3000 grand on insurance for a shit and cheap car! They make motorbikes with bigger engines than that for christ's sake So a power limit will achieve a grand total of NOTHING.

Make Pass Plus compulsury

Sorry love but I think your missing the point here! The test needs a major overhall, not having another course tagged on the end! I am doing my Pass Plus next weekend for the experience, that's what it's for, not an extension of the test.

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Currently undergoing training with the I.A.M.

close Botach. i got all my licences through the army and i got my HGV at the age of 19. a year and a half after i first sat in the driving seat of a car. i would be the first to admit that i did become a far better driver after completion of my HGV course. better awareness and respect etc etc etc. the one significant advantage that i did receive as a car driver was the skid pan that i did.as part of the course. awareness of the problems HGV drivers have are relevant too right enough but you dont always drive around HGVs whereas a skid could occur any time.
i would like to throw physcology into this discussion if i may.
ignorance: i have passed my test so i know how to drive. the DVLA say so on a bit of paper
interest: i want to be a good driver so i will seek courses that will improve my driving ability and skill
acceptance: i have passed my test but it is basic so i have a lot to learn and it starts now

attitude will have a huge bearing on how well an individual behaves on the road during and after learning. someone who is actually keen to drive well will logically be a better driver than someone who merely wants the licence.

the next course i intend to do is a stunt drivers course. while it may sound like a bit of fun, if it teaches me new ways to control a car then there will still be advantages with regards to increasing my overall driving skills

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

[quote="Flynn"]
The driving age should be atleast 21 ( )
Make Pass Plus compulsury

quote]

Right ,FOI Flynn, I could well be one of the "old codgers" you refer to - 61 year old , held my licence from 19 , currently on a massive NCB ,with well over a million miles under my belt -a high percentage of it on single track roads and quite a few thousand off road,nil poin on my licence --and BTW -I'm not one to hang around.

Point I'm trying to make is
1) driving age -older is a fallacy - teach them young - that makes better drivers , along with sensible (non biased road safety education)
2) In my day ,we got past our test ,then we had to satisy Dad/uncle /several mentors that we were safe - to me in those days pass plus
would have been a piece of cake -but new drivers need additional education (those that don't are accidents waiting to happen)
3) Point you and ALL THE EXPERTS MISSED -one thing missing fron Britains roads today - Trafpols - for stopping and giving out advice or just for being there to be asked by the few looking for advice -know I did more than once.
So next time you see an "old codger " going slow - think -he might just have seen something you might have missed --just because he is old don't mean that his roadskills are non existant .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Roughly what my Son in law (ex reme ,HGV crane op) tells me ,never had skid pan training -first experience of skid was about a year after passing test on narrow SC road(A830), 180 degree skid ,ditch one side ,loch other , luckly brain responded to what i'd read about skids and I managed to control it .Made it a point afterwords to have my first skid of the year where and when I wanted it .



And thats the whole point ,missed in the discussion document .Bit like the old apprenticeship days,where everybody took (say)four years to learn a skill.



Good luck on that - might be fun to see a HGV doing things on the A9 -but sadly my days in the north have ended .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Scanny, if you haven't already done so and you get the chance, go on the skidpan/abs course for HGV. I did it at RAF Scampton airfield in a 40 ton petrol tanker filled with water. The trailer was fitted with out-rigged super-singles about 4 feet off the deck and we were made to put them on the deck!

Never been so scared, or had so much fun in my life!!

[/quote]

Hi botach

1) Yes I agree with that
2) So are you saying that Pass Plus is no match for the parental driving "test"?
3) I don't get that, I think it is mostly due to the attitude towards cops these days.

Lastly I was not implying that older people have non existant road skills or go needlessly slow I was just saying that some of them who are rich and drive around in Jaguars want the roads to themselves.

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Currently undergoing training with the I.A.M.

[quote="Flynn]

Hi botach


2) So are you saying that Pass Plus is no match for the parental driving "test"?
3) I don't get that, I think it is mostly due to the attitude towards cops these days.

[quote]

2) We don't have that , don't know much about pass plus ,but any form of advanced training to make a newly passed driver think about how to improve must be a plus .
3) Problem is not with cops ,but with the attitude(and economy & industry built on the fallacy that speed is wrong).Haven't actually met a trafpol personally for many a year ,but regularly hear one or two on here (and other motoring sites ),ALL preaching from the same bible .To my mind , the presence of a trafpol is worth more than 1000 cameras - their last resort is a ticket ,but then it would be accompanied with a large dollop of education (unless I read the ones on here wrongly) --so with the FPN would come a valuable lesson in road safety ,at the critical time ,NOT some days later ,when the incident would have been forgotten about .
It's like mother saying to child "wait till daddy gets home ",and then daddy proceeds to harange child - to the child "for what ".

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on