Safe Speed Forums

"Your papers!"

Just ID cards by the back door.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Not sure if it is an urban myth, but I was advised by an ex cop NOT to havew documenty in the car as it could be taken as partial admission of guilt.

If true then there is no way I'd carry documents with me.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

I've decided that I'm a rebel like James Dean or Marlon Brando (years ago). I'll show the authorities, I'll go out driving without my licence. That'll show how anti-authority I am.

Groan. Another time waster for the police. All this will do is give another offence to charge the uninsured/untaxed with and inconvenience millions in the process. I suppose we will have to take the paper bit too as our dumbass system got this bit wrong from the start.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Not read the whole article - but when I go abroad - like them Swiss "hooligans" (meant affectionately as they are serious about safety - and yet able to have fun!)

Well like them .. when I drive in France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy .. I have to have my passport on my person, my driving licence on my person, insurance policy, proof of vehicle ownership/roadworthiness, spare bulbs, high-viz gilet in car , first aid kit (Swiss/Austrian/German - all law) - and I also have to take out extra insurance to be covered for speeds over 81.25 mph where legally alllowed there

OK - would it make our lives "easier"? Well I guess we'd be able to check your licence on the spot. At the moment - we pull our chavs from hell in their "chavmobiles and pratmobiles"

(Wildy - love these wild words you invent! You little wild you! )


- and they give us false names and addresses. We know they are false as the details are not on the database and we also know from our intensive training when someone is telling us "fibbles".

I am not pulling the "I am trained . Have done a training course" nonsense. I know really - because I have been doing the job now all my adult life from graduating from Uni. It does not come with "training alone" - any more than my "skills in driving came with training manuals alone". We learn and continue to learn as we gain experience in all our jobs - whatever they are and at whatever rung on the life ladder we are.

I will never say a training course answers everything. You have to learn and be prepared to continue learning from your training - any training .. any course you do for whatever your job or aptitude. But they still help widen the mind.

But whilst I digressed a little on training and how well (or how badly dependent on your point of view) we are taught to spot the fibblers, do I agree that we must carry a driving licence on our person all the time?

It's a really loaded question because the idea is "alien" to a nomal Brit mind and "normal" to a European one.


But would it help us?



At present it takes us less time to check the database than it does for the person to go through his pockets. It may be of use oif the database is incorrect though - and we do accept errors happen - and will - if we know the person may well be caught in a timing upload of information - give the 7 days to produce even if database showed "crime" I suppose you could say discretion .. or just "training counting" .. or just "experience of life" on the part of that officer in question

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

We are going far to far down the road of 'we must' do this do that culture.

We must NOT make further petty laws.

It maybe prudent to have our license upon our person, but there are disadvantages too.

We need to advise guidance, and preference perhaps. but please let us not send out, more sledge hammers, to crack little nuts.

I have spent many years carrying a photocopy around, as my original license was used as a form of ID theft, and money was taken out of a retail Store. Some 2 yrs later they finally located me, and then it all came out, and un-be-known to me I had been 'black listed' for credit without my even realising it !

If my handbag is stolen, then I have to pay for all the replacements, but if it is a copy, then I just go home and copy it again !
We cannot concentrate on beauratic non-sense.
A copy would 'do' and will still potentially cause the owner problems, if lost, but by rights it should be 'enough', to let the cops know if it is all in order !

After all why should we continue to pay for a Government that cannot sort out it's computer databases sufficiently, well enough along with the Megga wealth of Insurance Companies ! It is not that hard after all !

And just what is wrong with producing in 7 days, it has worked extremely well up to now.
This is about lack of for-sight in solving the insurance problems yet some solutions must be staring them in the face, but to obtain yet further funds off law abusing motorists is really seriously appalling. IF we could trust the cops to all be level headed and even tempered in assessing each situation properly then we maybe wouldn't mind but once a rule becomes law the motorist becomes yet another target for the Police to chase, and raise revenue for the government coffers.

The government worries about the Morals of this Country - well it says that it does anyway, and then continues to act with no decency at all.
The continual disproportional enforcement is really seriously appalling.
What ever happened to guidance and advisors.
If the Police believe that something is a good idea and would help then this needs to be thorough;y examined to decide on the very best overall action is any ... but we are seeing an increase of police Statements that are then expected to become the new 'law' since when have we allowed the Police to become so Political ?
where are the debates about what is best to really deal with the real issue the un-insured drivers and those with no licenses?

I hope that this die's an appropriate death, unless someone can show me a 'really' good reason to have your license on you all of the time for fear of yet another a fine !

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I don't have a major problem with this.

They can already trace the registered keeper from your number plate and from that check your licence and insurance. The problem arises when somebody gives a false name and address when stopped. It doesn't happen anywhere near as frequently as it used to but we still see a few cases, usually involving young drivers up for no insurance. Such cases end when the police officer who did the check confirms that the person in the dock is not the person he stopped. These cases usually involve a £50 car with no registered keeper which is seized and crushed. The driver then goes out and buys another wreck to drive without insurance, MOT or licence. Leaving an innocent motorist to deal with the fall out.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Some forums recommend not carrying any form of ID at all. The idea being that if prosecuted, you plead not guilty and send a solicitor to deal with your case and don't attend in person. As you aren't present the officer is not able to ID you and you get a not guilty.

The truth is rather different. If you don't turn up for your trial the case goes ahead in absence. If your lawyer doesn't dispute the ID evidence you are found guilty (assuming they prove everything else). If your lawyer does dispute the ID evidence, the case is adjourned and a summons issued to get you to court. Resulting in more costs to pay if you lose.

However the forums who give this advice will have achieved their aim of taking up court time to slow the system down. They won't care that it's you that gets the bill.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

In Gear wrote - and they give us false names and addresses. We know they are false as the details are not on the database and we also know from our intensive training when someone is telling us "fibbles".

And at this point they are arrested as their ID cannot be established? I have been out with police on waste carrier checks and one chap was stopped driving a typical suspect vehicle and since he did not know where he lived I could not process him as an unlicensed waste carrier. PC with me arrested him and off we went to the local nick, he still could not remember his address until after half an hour in a cell thinking time the custody sgt threatened to stick him on for wasting police time and his memory returned just like that, amazing.

So surely its horses for courses Mr normal driver gets an HORT/1 producer, the fibbers get a seat in a cell until the truth is out or is that too simple.

My problem is understanding why are we suggesting inconveniencing (criminalising?) millions of motorists for the sake of the admittedly infrequent lying idiot?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I'm so disillusioned by our modern police 'service' that the vey fact a CC wants it to be law makes me instinctively against it.

There are plenty of law's they don't enforce without adding easy new ones for them to meet their targets.

Next month CC calls for silver cars to be made illegal (except for police cars which will be exempt)

Oh, Thats simple

A far better thing it is to criminalise millions of otherwise innocent people (especially if there is a chance to make a bob or two) than it is for a single "Officer of the state" to suffer the slightest inconceveniance.

in any case the policy also neatly fulfills rules #2 and particularly, #3 of Dustys tennants of law (Maintaining the revenue stream and keeping us in our place/reminding us all whose boss)

Oh heck! Why not go the whole Hog! Why not simply chip us all!

How about a chip implanted in the palm of our right hands (or perhaps under the skin of our foreheads) this chip could contain all our personal details, internet passwords, and so on along with transaction history and e-banking facilities and which can be scanned at will by "Peace" officers to prove your identity and be monitored by state survalence to track your every movement.

All for your personal safety of course!

This can be sold to the sheeple as a wonderful conveniance! Your house will welcome you home with a personal greeting! You will no longer have to worry about remembering all those pesky PIN's and passwords, you will for ever be safe from unlicenced drivers, Al Quaeda, Space aliens <Insert popular Government inspired Boogyman here>

Of course, the chip is volentary! Nobody has to have a chip, (after all, those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear!) but without it you will not be able to buy or sell anything, drive, use a computer, walk down the street without being harassed by "peace" officers! (etc etc etc)

(In much the same way as nobody HAS to have a TV, But if you dont you will be subject to a relentless campaign of harrassment by state officials!)

Now, where have I heard a similar idea before??

Ah Yes, Thats it!

REV 13 16:17

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

he'll be sued by max mosley & the fia for nicking their idea.


So who's gonna pay for me to have a new driving licence every year, cos thats how long a bank card lasts me, which travels to work with me every day.

And who's gonna pay for all the broken windows once the crackheads learn so many people keep their licences in the glove box, cos millions will?

does it mean if I lose my licence I can't work for 3 weeks while I wait for a replacement?

How severely is this law gonna be enforced? Are the police gonna be sitting on the side of the road with facial-recognition cameras linked to DVLA looking for cars not driven by the owner in hope of an easy crime detected and dealt with? oh hold on- that might lead to them coming into contact with nasty people like car thieves and unregistered drivers, scrub that.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

How about an electronic tag under my skin from birth?

Well, the government are already under mine. (Or do I mean undermine ).

So they could be in bed with me at a subcutaneous level watching my every step..

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I would have supported this a while ago but not now. Police now have too many powers and the abuse of the prevention of terrorism act to harass legitimate protesters and photographers is disgusting so I wouldn't support it. I speak as someone with several family members that were or are in the police. My OH was stopped last night because he wasn't anywhere near home and had the impression the police were looking for any excuse and the guy that stopped him showed great disappointment when the pnc came back totally clear. He's also been asked who he was a couple of times in a rude manner while he was just minding his own business walking down the street. Such interference with normal daily life is becoming objectionable. How dare someone accuse you of being a no good criminal just because you are 60 miles away from home or walking down the street in a hooded top (he's 40 so not exactly prime yobbo material!). Often something as simple as asking who you are in a better tone rather than the gruff tone would lead to more positive results and stop the police being so alienated from everyone. They don't tend to take that tone with me but will happily speak to my OH in a gruff and rude manner.

We have given away far too many rights. At the same time the criminal scum are just faking id, number plates and other things and get off scot free all the time. Meanwhile the honest, mostly law abiding rest of us get it in the neck as the war against crime has been lost. Bearing in mind the other article about most of us breaking laws daily it seems pointless to go after minor infractions.

Because those idiots are driving uninsured, without licences and with the name, address and date of birth of somebody else ready to give the police if stopped. They believe that they can get away with any motoring offence which is not serious enough to warrant arrest on the spot. Consequently their driving is frequently appalling, and not just now and then but more or less constantly.


There can't be many drivers who leave home without a wallet or handbag and putting your licence in with your credit cards, which will take a few seconds at most, isn't that much of an inconvience.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

3 Questions.

#1 What is the current police procedure when dealing with somebody who has gone out and left their credit cards at home ? (Are they arrested and taken down to the station for interogation or are they just issued with a fixed penelty notice)

#2 How much are you charged by the credit card company if your card is lost or stolen and how long does it take to get a replacement? Are you allowed to buy stuff while you are waiting for it or do you just starve!

#3 What happens if somebody else fraudulently uses your credit card? Will the police assume you are lying? Are you liable to huge fines, loss of livelyhood or even prison sentances unless you are very lucky and are able to prove beyond doubt (all at your own expense of course) that you were not the person using it!?

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I am assuming that they just verbally give their details and have no evidence to hand. Building on Ian's post above, why is it not possible that people who have no evidence to support their claim of identity are taken down to the nick for further investigation? I can then understand the risk in my choosing to go out with nothing in my pockets if I wish but am not coerced by the law into carrying what is effectively an ID card.

The point remains, why should I be inconvenienced for the sins of the very few? I am not accountable to the state, it is accountable to me and should act to maximise my freedom.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

If you are not stopped there is no need to ID you. If you are stopped it will be necessary. If you think a trip to the cells for a few hours until someone can fetch your licence is acceptable in return for you not having to carry it, I am sure the system will accommodate you.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Perhaps the police should add a "nice tone of voice" test to the recruitment procedure. They would also need to ensure that any officer with a sore throat communicates by written message to avoid upsetting members of the public with his gruff voice.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.