Safe Speed Forums

Better than 20/20 the doctor told me but they don't bother writing that down as 20/20 is considered normal and there's no point in doing further testing to work out how good your eyes really are, and he was a qualified doctor, part of a medical health check.

Try driving round the Isle of Mull, there you get one ton Aberdeen Angus sitting in the road with their eyes shut, and sheep.

I'm just stating what I have actually SEEN with MY EYES not what I think I have seen, but if you can't win an argument with facts then slate me off, I don't worry about your name calling.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

can someone summarsise the 3 pages that have appeared since i last looked in on this thread ?

Basically graball has been on a rant slagging off evrty thing Weepej and I say. He has called W's vision into question and impugned the doctor who tested his eyes at better than 20/20. He has implied that I am a drunken liar when I spoke of sheep sleeping in the road.

About par for him I think and great fun.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

anything on topic at all ?

Not really. Attitudes seem very entrenched and detractors are hearing what they want to hear rather than what is said.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Best if you read it from dec 24th if you want an unbiased viewpoint but basically Adam and myself were questioning the fact that unlit cyclists(according to weep and wally) have a right to go about getting knocked off in the dark and then blaming motorists for not seeing them.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

grab-balls has made any interesting précis of our argument that night drivers should travel at a speed which allows them to see unlit objects in time avoid hitting them. His standard of debate is such that he will problem respond to this post by saying that I watch too much Wallace & Grommit

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Graball is a nickname I received at school when playing in goal so grab balls is a very good assumption for you to make. As far as the cyclists right to cycle unseen then that debate will probably last longer than Wallace and Grommit's popularity but unfortunately it is far more serious. The assumption that I called you a "drunken liar"is again interesting as I am struggling to find that phrase anywhere. You do miss the obvious on some posts (such as the driver on the roundabout in a uk car) and make strange suggestions (that drivers should sit on the left in a car being driven on the lhs of the road) but I think that you are the one to resort to name calling when the argument doesn't go your way................"to recognize an obnoxious and self opinionated tw@t" .......I believe is your exact phrase?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Arrgrggg!!!

Who saying cyclists have a right to ride in the road unlit?!?! It's illegal for a start and rightly so.

I actually have words with cyclists I see that don't display any lights, when I'm on my bike, and sometimes when I'm in my car. I'm happy to see them fined and removed from the road, for their own safety.

BUT it still happens, (as well as their being other unlit objects in the road such as sheep, pedestrians, cars, cows, great big floods of water) and if you drive your car at such a speed that you can't do anything but strike one, then more fool you. Also, that's dangerous driving because your're going at a speed that means you cannot react in time to an object in the publc carriageway; that's specifically illegal.

You can't drive your car around assuming everybody else is complying with road laws and being careful, becuase they are not.

How hard can it be!?

I didn't call you "an obnoxious and self opinionated tw@t" , just said I could recognize them. But if the cap fits....

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I really do think that we are going round in circles here because this is what has been said two days ago. No-one expects other ALL other road users to drive within the law ALL the time but for cyclists or any other road user, to be in the road without proper lighting or aids to make them noticable is plain STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE. It is also every road users duty to ensure that they make the road as safe as possible for others. What is so difficult for you to see in that?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Are you going to extend that to car drivers ensure they drive in such a way that they can respond safely to an unlit object in the road?

When driving at night and believe me , I have done a lot of it, (approx 300 miles a night five days a week) you would be mad not to be driving at a speed which you would feel that you could stop safely in an emergency. I have seen animals round corners that you wouldn't normally expect, trees across roads that if you hit them would not move but would wreck your vehicle and lying pools of water that were so deep that a van could not push through but there will always be something round one corner that could kill you no matter how slowly you are driving. About a year ago a guy was killed around our way when winds blew a branch off a tree which landed on his windscreen (in the dark), so how would you safety experts write that one up....he was going too fast?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

thats too easy.... it wasnt technically in the road was it ?

[not a safety expert any more than the next man, although i do have to deal with safety experts on a daily basis and its a painful thing]

maybe not but if he had been a split second later and it would have been under his wheels.The point is, that that no matter how many precautions you take, there are always going to be somethings in life that may kill you.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

..or that you might kill ?

And the moral of the story is.....things without lights are more likely to be struck in the road by people not observing correctly or who are driving too fast to stop for the unexpected, than things with lights?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

So what the fish is the argument and vitriol about? We both seem to be saying the same thin

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Cor, four pages to say you agree with me! :-