Safe Speed Forums

My bold - your excellent logic.



You raise a good point there, without this information the survey and its conclusions have failed to publish data required for proper review therefore cannot be accepted as fact. Your logic applied to SS I believe.

As mentioned above, a still more damning failure is that of not providing the questions asked and the choice of replies.

What would be your thoughts on the following statement?

Many people consider the term 'speeding' synonymous with 'poor driving'.

The above is my opinion and unsubstantiated by any research I have access to, however I would be interested in your opinion. It is key to my personal understanding of what the Safespeed campaign is about, i.e. to focus on how driving standards and therefore road safety can be improved as a whole. It is my belief that road safety is about getting people to adopt the spirit not just to follow the rule to avoid prosecution.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

"Wildly paranoid?"

There's a sometimes fine but very significant line between our leaders lying to protect a "conspiracy" and simply twisting the truth because they're arrogant, lazy and incompetent and want an easy life.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

If you think we have an unjustified fear that the Government is lying to the public about all sorts of things to suit their agenda then I direct you to the annual release of the "secret" cabinet papers under the 30/50 year rules.

These consistently show mendacious lies and spin being used to convince the public that the official line is "right".

The lessons of history show us that Governments are pretty much wrong about most things and thus their policies should be examined in that light.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Thank you for spotting that. I've asked them to correct this and also added a comment (yet to be published) with correction therein.

Wow, if this is your only issue with everything I have pointed out to you, then hopefully you'll be taking the time to understand both this campaign and the issues we deal with more fully before slinging around your libellous comments. Let's deal with your concerns:

All the raw figures utilised here are obtained from other sources, generally official reports and studies. If you have a problem with a particular graph then I suggest you unearth that data, as the author of the graph did, and try plotting it for yourself. If your result is significantly different, despite accurate methodology, then you have grounds to highlight this fact. I personally never mentioned motorway speed limits as proof of anything, and agree that they are a different kettle of fish, if only because they are roads that are designed for safety at higher speeds. More roads should be designed such, not to allow "hare-arseing" but to make it safer for all road users when some do! You must realise, of course, that 'the motorway issue' does not invalidate any particular study in it's entirety, nor does it prevent logical conclusions being reached from utilising that study's data.

Residents who cry out for lower limits. Well, you hit the nail on the head with "cry out", since it always seems to be a vocal minority. There is no doubt in my mind that a significant driving factor behind their wailing is the fact that the official line has them brainwashed that "fast" is automatically dangerous. Couple this with the fact that humans are wholly incapable of judging speed visually/aurally and we have anxious mothers seeing murderous speeding drivers on every road-bend. There is no doubt a not insignificant aspect of NIMBYism to boot, in addition to the insipid attitude shift this country seems to be exhibiting of animosity towards anyone making progress, though that's largely covered in the threads on overtaking.

I think ANPR is great, no doubt about it, and we need to get uninsured vehicles off our roads. It does not surprise me, however, that you see this as a major road-safety factor though as it, in the same way as "speed", is never the cause of an accident. Equally, catching drunk drivers is an excellent step, but where are all the officers that are doing this? Why do you so rarely see traffic cops these days, who's very presence encourages a higher standard of driving, and can not only stop drunks, catch uninsured/registered/licenced/taxed/MOT'd drivers, but also deal with an infinite number of other transgressions, due to their mobile, intelligent, common-sense nature? It would be great if speed cameras could offer us the same quality of policing, thus allowing real officers to jump on even more of the poor driving habits so prevalent on our roads today, but they don't, they simply replace officers, and so other aspects of driving go largely unenforced.

You still seem to be making the mistake that charitable status is in some way a gold standard, or implies a higher level of credibility. It does not, there is no organisation making sure that charities have the best interests of the populus at heart, or always tell the truth, they merely have to tick certain boxes, pay a fee, and submit their books each year. If you have a problem with the mistake the BBC made then I suggest you go ahead and take it up with the reporter that made it, urging them to be more rigorous in their research in future. I can say with absolute certainty that nobody associated with the SS campaign would purport it to be a charity. Your turn to remove your tinfoil hat.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

I wouldn't believe everything the BBC says if I were you Oliver.

Perhaps someone should have pointed you to this thread earlier...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18173

Would you care to tell us why you think it was pulled so hastily?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

it always seems to be a vocal minority. There is no doubt in my mind that a significant driving factor behind their wailing is the fact that the official line has them brainwashed that "fast" is automatically dangerous.

Two examples at random of what passes for discourse here- the introduction of a hunch backed up with zero evidence (support for cameras is reasonably constant. The majority want them) and a belittling of the opposition. It is tremendously arrogant to assume everyone who opposes speeding traffic is "brainwashed"- these are real people with real concerns that their child may be killed by a driver who picks and chooses which laws apply to them, and I repeat, there doesn't have to be an accident for speeding cars to be intimidating, they discourage vulnerable road users.

Evidence that refuts your cause is dismissed as corrupt and biased.

People who speak out about anti-social behaviour in their neighbourhood are dismissed as "flat earthers" or "brainwashed"- it's terribly sad and indicates an unwillingness to even listen to what people are saying.

I think ANPR is great, no doubt about it, and we need to get uninsured vehicles off our roads. It does not surprise me, however, that you see this as a major road-safety factor though as it, in the same way as "speed", is never the cause of an accident.

Nonsense, crashes involving uninsured vehicles cost the rest of us £400m a year and rising. Uninsured drivers kill and maim and are more likely to be involved in hit-and-runs. Why would you not admit that this constitutes a major road-safety factor? There's a culture of lawlessness on the roads. The chances of getting caught speeding are slim, most breaches of the limit go unpunished, the mobile ban is invariably flouted, people take absurd risks when they could just get out of bed earlier. Half the cameras in London don't even have film in them. The link to the BBC thread is interesting, I wonder if those who blame a camera for causing an accident when a driver brakes upon noticing it would blame a girl in a mini skirt for causing a distraction? If a driver precipitously brakes whenever he sees a bra advert, interesting plant, police car or speed camera then he's a muppet driver, no more no less.

Everybody's got to have place where they can complain about things they don't like. This Internet thingie's still pretty new, so there's a lot of noise on the channels right now. But this site's about politics, and the people here are trying to make a consensus to decide to scrap these cameras. We all think the camaras are a pest (even me, although I think they might be worth it in the balance).

If they manage it, it will be done by politics, not by some search for some form of "scientific truth", although that might help. If enough people don't like them, they'll have to go. And, to be frank, I have hardly met a bloke who doesn't despise them, at least privately.

the people here are trying to make a consensus to decide to scrap these cameras.


How's that going?

Nice to see you back , Oliver.
You seem to think you know a lot about driving and road safety but why can you not answer my question about how much driving experience YOU actually have? Is that question a little embarissing for you?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

The idea that someone's (non-existent) dearth of driving experience should be in any way "ebarrAssing" smacks strongly of a heirarchy of road users based on experience, which would lend more weight to the views on road safety of Peter Sutcliffe, him being a lorry driver before getting nicked and all.

So far I've been called a troll, a corporate nazi, whatever that is, brainwashed and not a driver. Why's it so hard for me to see this place as full of malcontents? Your arguments should really stand or fall on its merits, not on how fast you can gang up and attack dissenters.

The chances of being apprehended for no-insurance are low because of the shift to automated traffic policing.
As for speed cameras, they don't bother me....my speed has to be lower than the car limit anyway, and re-tasking the speed cams to get vans and trucks is a major task....so it isn't going to happen anytime soon.
As for my m/cycle....well, I [again] rarely speed, and in any case....cams mainly picture the front....and m'bikes have no front number plate !
I think you work for that well-known road save-tea char.....sorry, sponge-for-public-money, brake (no capitals)
It used to be ok when it started, then the public-money-parasites took it over.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

It would be all too easy for me to write endlessly about safety or lack of it on horse back when I've never sat on one but who in their right mind would take me seriously? So why on earth should any experienced driver take you seriously, that is what I want to know?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I really do think that you would be better off writing on a subject that you have some sort of experience on , Oliver!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

You would discount the views of those scared or intimidated by horses careering dangerously down the road because they are not themselves horse riders? I've driven for twenty years, had I not my views backed up with the evidence I've cited and the evidence of the holes in your campaign's reasoning would carry no less weight. Then again, dismissing a person's view without even considering it is a commonly sad feature here...

Oh dear! It looks like little Oliver has gone off in a sulk...yet again. Well in that case I had better go and write my article for the Guardian entitled "Submarine safety in the North Sea"....I just need to find out what a submarine is exactly then I'm away!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Pretty good, starting from nothing. You're here.

Oh good ,you are staying with us this time. People scared of horses, cars, vampires etc are entitled to a view,just as some people are scared by the earth being wiped out by a large meteor but that doesn't make them vampire/meteor experts.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

There's far too much of that going on. There was a very good communicator who kept it in check but he died a year ago, sadly. Hopefully, someone of the same calibre will arise.