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20mph, but only at school times

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jomukuk

Post subject: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:06

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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 04:10
Posts: 3244

http://www.bedsonsunday.com/bedsonsunday-news/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=386468

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weepej

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:22

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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 22:50
Posts: 3267

No comment?

article wrote:

Research by the Department for Transport indicates that the risk of a child being involved in an accident has reduced by about two-thirds where 20mph zones have been installed.

But according to Safe Speed 20mph zones work to increase the amount of car on ped action, so these 20moph zones should make things worse.

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dcbwhaley

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:37

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Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 13:45
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Location: Near Buxton, Derbyshire

If the school is being properly run all the children will be within the school walls and (except for the unlikely event of a speeding vehicle crashing through the walls) quite safe from what is happening on the roads outside.

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Roger

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:53

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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:01
Posts: 4815
Location: Essex

dcbwhaley wrote:

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, the limits meant at ingress/egress times

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malcolmw

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:58

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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border

article wrote:

Research by the Department for Transport indicates that the risk of a child being involved in an accident has reduced by about two-thirds where 20mph zones have been installed.

I shouldn't rely on this source too much. I have said many times on here that you should read carefully what is said by these spin doctors.

The statement does not say that accidents with children have been reduced by 2/3rds. This is just implied so that the average reader thinks so. It just refers to "risk" which is undefined and may just be a subjective assessment.

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In Gear

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:31

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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820

article wrote:

If school's in, speeding's out
BY GARRICK ALDER
A campaign to reduce speed limits outside schools is finally taking effect.

This week, Bedfordshire County Council's development control committee approved 20mph limits outside three schools.

Cllr Susan GaszczakCotton End and Kingsmoor lower schools in Bedford Ashton and St Peters CofE Lower School in Dunstable now have protective speed orders in place.

The restriction outside Cotton End Lower School is operative during school hours only, with the others being permanent.

Research by the Department for Transport indicates that the risk of a child being involved in an accident has reduced by about two-thirds where 20mph zones have been installed.

The council's policy was the result of a campaign by Lib Dem councillor Susan Gaszczak, whose own children attended Cotton End Lower School.

Cllr Gaszczak said: "It is really great news for Cotton End that the speed limit should be reduced to 30mph and 20mph at school times.

"My campaign to reduce the speed limits outside all schools originated from the discussions with parents at Cotton End Lower School. Forty miles per hour speed limits through any village is ridiculous, that is something residents in Cotton End will no longer face.

"I am really pleased for them."

Most villages around here are 30 mph - especially as some are rather large "villages" as homes have been built. :popcorn:

The problem with making two of those 20 mph limits permanent 24/7 is that folk will simply ignore most of the time and then also fail to comply at peak times. :roll:

We find the flashing ambers with the message that 20 mph applies for the entire stretch whilst these flash work very well.

But we also have to aware that children do not actually rush out from the school gates in a desperate stampede from their teachers. The actual dangers are caused by parents trying to park to pick up and when trying to beat another parent to the slot nearest the gates - they will and do cause accidents :banghead:

Low speed/low impact ones - but still an accident. :banghead:

. As for some children. They walk or cycle home - and the dangers are about a half mile further on. :roll:

We find a few more THINK! Slow! signs appear to contunue reminding some road users along the danger zone around some of the schools here.

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Last edited by In Gear on Sun Feb 01, 2009 13:37, edited 1 time in total.

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malcolmw

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 13:27

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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border

So, two of the 20mph limits are "permanent" and I assume that slack wording means that they are operative at all times as the comparison is made with "school hours only".

Don't the people who support this realise that their claims to want to protect children are undermined by the limits being in force at 2am. InGear is right that drivers will just ignore them to the detriment of respect for properly set limits.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

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whynot

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 14:01

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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 19:11
Posts: 172
Location: Southampton

When most of the schools are turning out around here, you are lucky if you are doing 10 mph with the amount of traffic. When I see 20 is plenty signs I often think "I wish"

It would seem once again the authority's solution to the apparent problem is to have one speed fits all. How does a 20mph limit help if the road is clear? Of course if children were taught to cross the road properly, this would hold them in good stead at all times, not just when they were leaving school.

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jomukuk

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 14:14

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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 04:10
Posts: 3244

Perhaps I should elaborate.
The speed limit outside the school, and through the village, is 40mph at present.
The pavement from the school to the village centre is lined with steel fencing.
The traffic pays scant attention to the speed limit as it is now, and it will soon be 30mph through the village. In spite of there being two speed activated warning signs
Accident history over 6 years is 2 dead, 1 seriously injured and several shunts.
One of the dead was a young mother killed by a vehicle leaving the road on a corner, the seriously injured person was also involved in that accident and was another young mother. Both had their children with them at the time. The last person killed was a young man, the accident was a driver-no-fault.
The school is on the straight stretch of the road.

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Steve

Post subject: Re: 20mph, but only at school times

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 14:30

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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London

weepej wrote:

No comment?

article wrote:

Research by the Department for Transport indicates that the risk of a child being involved in an accident has reduced by about two-thirds where 20mph zones have been installed.

But according to Safe Speed 20mph zones work to increase the amount of car on ped action, so these 20moph zones should make things worse.

Causality!
Were these thing installed after a spate of accidents - Regression to the Mean yet again?
Perhaps the limit reduction coincided with other applied safety measures (pedestrian crossings/barriers) - 'bias on selection' yet again?

As others have touched upon, an unnecessarily low limit at a good time can lead to disrespect of that same limit – at both the good and the worst possible time. Few would complain if the new limit were to be restricted to times of child activity.

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