Safe Speed Forums

This evening on the way home I saw fresh tracks in the mud into one of our fields. I slithered up the track on my low performance motorcycle to find someone had donated a load of broken concrete to us. I rang the boss who had seen the vehicle drive past with bits on and wondered where he was going to tip it and got a description and number plate.

So, if he rings the coppers will they be interested and will the vehicle get a flag against it on our new ANPR cameras, or is it one for the environment agency and what do they do about it?

I would suggest the police would have little interest, the environment agency would be a better contact as this would be an offence under environmental legislation and waste carrier licensing regs, if it turns out that there are 'nasties' in there such as ACM's (asbestos containing materials) the HSE would also be interested in hearing.

Hope that's of use.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Fly tipping, or more correctly the deposit of controlled waste on land where a waste management licence is not in force is an offence under s33 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 as is a serious matter. Magistrates can fine up to 50k or two years inside. A Crown Court can impose an unlimited fine, up to 5 years inside or both. In addition it is not just the individual who actually deposits the waste but the person who controls or is in a position to control any vehicle used in the commission of the offence can also be prosecuted. Any vehicle used can also be impounded and an application made for forefiture.

Getting evidence against the tippers is always difficult. Cases can be brought by the Environment Agency and Local Authorities. I am running a case at the moment and am looking forward to the tippers half day out with the local Magistrates. As an either way offence if the accused does not turn up the lawyers will be under instructions to ask for a warrent for his arrest. The police can take action but generally the Crown Prosecution Service tend to leave it to the local authorities to take cases which I have done using evidence gathered by police who appear as competent witnesses.

Report the matter to the police, local authority and the Environment Agency quote the legislation and ask each one what they are going to do about it. The EA do however tend to concentrate on the bigger cases. The police should certainly flag the vehicle at the very least as it has been used in the commission of an offence. To carry waste requires a waste carriers licence issued tby he Environment Agency. Waste carried for profit and building or demolition waste can only be carried by a licensed carrier so you could be looking at two offences.

As the cost of landfill increases and recession bits there are unfortunately more people willing to take a chance. Time perhaps to invest in better security.

Thank you

The Environmental Protection Act does allow magistrates to impose fines up to £50K. A custodial sentence, imposed in the magistrates courts for this offence, would be subject to a maximum of 6 months for one offence and 12 months for 2 or more sentenced on the same occasion.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I don't understand why it is in society's interest to make it hard or expensive for people to dispose of waste in the proper way.

I suppose in 'local-govt-think' people will create less waste if they have to pay for it, but in practice the more it costs to do something legitimately, the less likely people are to comply with the law.

- If we made all waste disposal (private and trade) completely free, what would be the downsides?
- How much do we think the volume disposed of would actually increase?
- Would the increase necessitate more resources than are currenntly devoted to cleaning up after fly-tippers?

Have several thousand public servants.
Need work to be done.
Works found, gets done, need more public servants.
Circle.
Vicious.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Stupid waste regulations are the precise problem. Fact of the matter is *we* pay for it anyway. If we get a legit person that pays the cost, we pay them. If we get a dodgy person we pay indirectly to clean up after them. Much easier to lift all these stupid charges and let all waste disposal be free at the point of use and channel business rates and council tax into it.

Local councils are supposed to prosecute offenders. They have "fly tipping units"! The one for Ely prosecuted zero offenders last year!

A public sector body doing sod all? Hold the front page!

Abercrombie, yes they are supposed to but unless they get a rocket from the EA they often can't be arsed to. When the EA report or pass on details of fly tipping they expect an update on the LA's response - this gets fed into the dreaded league tables - it can be an incentive for action!!

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

My local authority are closing a lane that is notorious for fly tipping - will that stop the fly tippers? hmmm? tricky one, but my guess is no!

Personally I am devestated by this closure and I will have to drive around and find the next fly-tipping hot spot. The reason is I often find very useful things fly tipped including a hoover, propergator, industrial roll of bubble wrap and clothes. And of course wood is used on my stove and alloys collected for scrap.

People often say "you wouldn't like it outside your house" - well actually I would!

If fact sometimes I will bring stuff back that needs breaking for alloys but has say alot of foam that I would have to take to the tip as it is usually fire resistant. Now if I go with this in one environmentally efficient trip to the tip, with a saved-up full load on our pick-up, I am not allowed in - apparently I am commercial. But it's no problem, I just dump it outside my house as and when. Then my busy-body neighbour rings the council who come and collect it. If fact if I keep it up our lane may be closed to the public - what a good idea!

The irony is we have a Waste Carriers licence from the Environment Agency, yet if we collect fly-tipping, we can't take it to the council tip on their behalf! Especially alarming as we have done all the recycling for them as well!!

Fly-tipping is wrong but the local authorities policies beggar belief and make matters worse.

That's the first thing that I thought when a certain "lady" (and I use the term very loosely) proclaimed: "The Polluter Must Pay!"......I thought.....it's going to end up all over the streets!

And so it has......Now there's a surprise!

The nice touch here is that if you get fly tipping on your land the local authority will make you clean it up at your expense and fine you if you don't. A mate is estates manager for a retailer with 300+ stores and quite a few have land out the back, fly tipping costs them a lot of money in clear ups and some of the stuff dumped has pretty nasty.

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

If people have a problem with the council's lack of waste collection why don't they dump their waste on the council's offices?

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Andrew.

Because the offices are already full of crap.

update:

there is now concrete dumped all over the place. The same gang are doing it in the middle of the day and the coppers aren't interested. But we do have nice shiney new Specs on a local dual carriageway (that don't work and nobody seems to want) .

suggested loading it up and taking back to them, mob handed.

You need to hire Tony Martin as your security detail!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Here's another point to throw in the mix.

Some councils seem to have a policy of encouraging fly tipping. Allow me to explain:-

Had my usuall post Christmas clear out last month, loaded up the boot of the car and set off to the local council tip.

Lots of cars queuing to get in, so I parks over the road, gets my 2 bin bags out and crosses over intending to chuck them in the skips and get on with my insignificant little life without adding to the hazzard caused by cars queuing out of the tip and onto the road.

At the gates I am stopped by a (much bigger than me) jobsworth, who says I cannot enter on foot. Apparently, people who walk the 10m from the gate to the skip explode and infect everyone within a zillion mile radius with rabies, whereas those who enter by car and walk the 7m from the car to the skip do not.

"OK" quips I, "I'll just rip these open and drop 'em off by the side of the canal then, like everyone else that you turn away".

OK, so I'm not that daft, I dropped the rubbish off at another tip on the way to work the next day. But I do wonder how many will simply resort to fly tipping when faced with this kind of shagwittery.

Unfortunately, that is the problem with a lot of council employees, they aren't taught/paid/encouraged/capable of logical thinking and this is why the British road system is in such a mess.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.