Safe Speed Forums

Take it up with Xe, who is getting with the programme now.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Good, you admit there are circumstances where altruism is the worst policy. That's another ice-berg out of the way.
So now we know that there are circumstances where selfishness is the best policy, and you claim there
are others where altruism is the worst policy (through lack of knowledge or understanding). Are there
any examples you know where altruism is the worst policy for knowledgeable drivers? Or would
you like me to tell you about some?

Nope: "The best policy is to make sure we are equipped to deal with the situation.......". Your lack of counter argument won't support your claim.


No need to ask, just go for it, although it would be best to remain within the realms of the topic at hand - zip merging.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

You'd have to explain the context to know. But you have used pejorative
language to bolster your side of things, which is rather selfish of you!

I made no claim. I asked you if you knew any cases, and you said there were some that you know about, caused by lack of knowledge. Read back and see. I think you said "this can only be caused by lack of knowledge". So are there cases, or not?

so what do you call your statement of "So now we know that there are circumstances where selfishness is the best policy,"?
Remember, I countered that with this:"The best policy is to make sure we are equipped to deal with the situation.......", that's not something you've refuted; this is why both your test cases fail.


I knew you were going to do that.
Yes of course there are such cases, but being altruistic and getting it wrong is not the same as being selfish (regardless of the outcomes), the latter being the original basis for your argument.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

So did I, Steve.


Now we know there are cases where altruistic motives lead to bad outcomes, and we know that some selfish motives lead to good outcomes. We're zooming along here.



I don't care how the good outcomes come about, only whether they come about. And it seems that we are all lined up. Altusim can be bad, and selfishness can be good. Or vice versa, depending on the context.

In fact, humans are adrift in an ocean of conflicting emotional reactions, being tossed about by them and being both good and bad, whatever that means.
That's the reality, whatever moral stance we take. That is why we have to put up with bad driving, like the weather - we have no control over it. We only have control of our responses to it.

There's an awful lot of bollocks being spouted about evolution, and the "selfishness" bred in. I would suggest that anyone who believes Darwinism has "bred selfish attitudes in" to mankind goes away and finishes Dawkins's "The Selfish Gene" before embarrassing themselves further by continually misunderstanding it's message.

The point of the matter is that "the gene" is selfish, through no design, behaviour or awareness of the organism. It does not mean that this is the gene responsible for selfishness, and indeed the "selfishness" of genes is more often than not responsible for altruism by the organism, towards members of the same species or unit. Its a slightly abstract thought, and I could see why those who's intellect falls so staggeringly short of their own estimations might struggle with it!

The fact that a selfish motivation chances upon the right behaviour in one case out of many does not make a selfish motivation desirable; the same result could be achieved merely because people knew it was the right thing to do. Knowing and doing the right thing on the roads will always be preferable to being selfish and occasionally fluking the right response. For those too cerebrally challenged for the stopped clock metaphor, perhaps one would like to think of a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years; eventually one of them may bash out Shakespear, but there'll be a lot of crap in between.

I notice another of my questions has gone unanswered. It does not come as a surprise. I can only surmise that the questions are either too difficult for the individual to answer, or more likely that an honest response would quite clearly highlight the idiocy of his position, and so they are ignored.

Yes Abercrummy, I am hung like a stallion, and I am absolutely better than you in every way.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Wrong! We don't have 'no control' over this. For a start we give guidance via the highway code (if only people remembered the rules within) so now there's no excuse. We can also have more control by having more trafpol to immediately bring a halt to inconsiderate behaviour (not just infringements) as well as reminding people the parts of the HC which some conveniently forget.

For all your bluster, selfishness is never be the best policy; however, it can be the lesser of evils in the absence or failure of a proper and accepted policy. Merge-in-turn is a good and well accepted policy.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I can see that your "great brain" has been whirring again...



Unfortunately, it's a brain that is only capable of commanding its owner to grasp the wrong end of sticks.



And only you have pursued that line of thinking, again wasting your time exploring avenues of thought that are irrelevant to the case at hand. I can see now why you live in a state of permanent confusion. But it doesn't have to be that bad if you take one thing at a time.



Leave poor Steve out of this. And please don't steer us down the irrelevant back-alleys of your terminally distracted mind.



I haven't said that selfish motivation is desirable (yet) - I've asked if it is OK. In actual fact, if it wasn't for your distractions and random interjections, we'd have already determined that it is inevitable. The extent of your delusions show that you are more than a simple headed layabout who is addicted to arguing. You just can't get hold of the right end of the stick, even if I jab it straight into your gut! So pull your socks up and cease fighting a battle which is long since over for you. We are all growing beards waiting for you to catch up.



You're well on your way on your own, though, RobinXe!



Well sell your bollocks and buy a brain!

Further posts like that will likely result with moderator action.

Yes; you could hand out copies to people that are driving poorly in your opinion. Let us know how you get on.



If I had more time, I be glad to talk about systems and meta systems. But the drivers you encounter are the ones on the road now, today, this minute. Like the weather, that may change over a long period. So we can agree that the weather is a fair comparison, right now.


How apt - a weather metaphor!



Please, quit these random interjections. I've never claimed that selfishness should be a policy.

Yes - there must be no more of that nonsense, RobinXe. Try and reign your over-optimism in.

PS: this is a stitch up....

PPS: look, I got carried away with all the bile that Xe pumped out. You know what he's like.
So try to be even handed here, Steve. He's trying it on, that's for sure. He has to cool it.
I've given him all the slack I can, but he's gone too far, by rights.

Time to put this thread out of our misery?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Maybe - it's served it course. I think we know that selfishness can have unexpectedly good outcomes.
And I think we have shown that altruism can have unexpectedly bad ones. Is there anything else to add?

All this vitriol, seems I have touched a nerve. Do you not like being shown up eh Aber?

Let me remind you that it was you who started blustering about Darwinism and Dawkins, and you who subsequently displayed your staggering ignorance of the same. Now you're crying that its an irrelevant sideline.

I think this thread has indeed served it's purpose, we can agree that "the selfish" may fluke good driving practice once in a while, though this does not make selfishness okay. We can also agree that this is by no means justification for other bad practices borne of selfishness, such as wilfully impeding drivers who wish to progress whilst one is out driving around listening to birdsong!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Is it not best to let the driving instructors instruct learner drivers and the police to police our roads. However, we are on hand to remind folks about the various HC rules.


I have never claimed you have said it should be a policy. I am responding to your claim that it can be the best one: "So now we know that there are circumstances where selfishness is the best policy".

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

This has proven to be an interesting and thought-provoking thread. However, It appears various contributors are in agreement the thread has served its purpose. It is also going downhill noticeably rapidly.

It is locked.

I'm reopening this thread.

Thanks to the rollout of Google Street View, I show the following: M3, southbound, towards J2 and roadworks:

MERGE IN TURN

WHEN QUEUEING USE BOTH LANES

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign