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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 09:48 
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Looks like Mft are reading "Safespeed"!
Moved 2004-5 figures here:


http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/sp ... nscp/scpa/
edited in previous post


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:36 
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Just in case any of the DfT links "Disappear" again:

You can get ALL THE PARTNERSHIPS RETURNS fo 2004-2007 :

http://rapidshare.com/files/220362794/P ... 2004-5.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/220362087/P ... 2005-6.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/220361253/P ... 2006-7.rar

It's much easier than downloading them individually and FASTER!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:49 
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yimitier wrote:
Looks like Mft are reading "Safespeed"!
Moved 2004-5 figures here:


http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/sp ... nscp/scpa/
edited in previous post



Yes the authorities do read these sites. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:53 
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In Gear wrote:
Quote:
Yes the authorities do read these sites.


Even over a Bank Holiday?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:58 
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yimitier wrote:
In Gear wrote:
Quote:
Yes the authorities do read these sites.


Even over a Bank Holiday?



I hope not :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 13:08 
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Quote:
In Gear on Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:49 am


Yes the authorities do read these sites. :wink:


It's just a shame that they don't take anything that they read "on board" and maybe learn a little about road safety and what is REALLY happening on the roads..

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 15:33 
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Lets hope that the Authorities of The Lancashire Court System are reading "Safespeed!
All they have to do is discredit these 6 Audit Commission Certificates that Authenticate the claims of The Road Safety Partnership & recorded on the records of Lancashire Constabulary, as being correct claims for FPNs over the period that the Court System hasn't processed the " FPNs" that are clearly shown on these returns, whose only conclusions are :

1. Pay the £60.00 & take the points

2. Contest the FPN in Court

3. Don't pay the fine & the Courts will pursue.

Image Image Image Image Image Image

However the contents of the returns have been "FULLY INVESTIGATED" by:
A 3 months investigation by The District Auditor.
A 6 months investigation by the "Independant" Monitor, Preston City's Solicitor, acting under instruction from Lancashire Police Authority
An Investigation by The Road Safety Partnership as reported by the Minister for Transport to Nigel Evans M.P.
An investigation by the Lead Partners Director of Finance Lancashire County Council

and ALL conclude that the number of FPNs claimed on the returns are genuine claims & would therefore support Lancashire Constabulary's Figures: Image
And that ALL these FPNs had been sent to the courts by Lancashire Constabulary & must therefore be with the Courts to to be concluded in the manner prescribed by law!

After all; TRA19 requires that:
ALL ISSUED FPNs have been evidenced to invoices & the Courts figures!
Otherwise they COULDN'T be accepted for payment.


Here's how it works! Double your money! All in the interest of ROAD SAFETY!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 18:44 
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They don't need to read this site. They just have to be aware that some files are being repeatedly accessed. Any decent database system will do that.
Just because the information has to be accessible doesn't mean it has to be find-able.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 19:05 
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jomukuk wrote:
They don't need to read this site. They just have to be aware that some files are being repeatedly accessed. Any decent database system will do that.
Just because the information has to be accessible doesn't mean it has to be find-able.



True...


But Lancs circa 2003 did some pretty dodgey FPNs to boost the Speed Awareness course... which rather undermined it badly. Of the folk we know to have been invited to it (practically ALL of the A&E in one hospital - and yeah .. I read some stats which gave the highly unlikely inference that we medics "are right speedt folk and more likely to get "done for it"! :roll: )


So far .. not been pinged or pulled. Must be a good little lad really :popcorn: .

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:53 
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Hi Mad Moggie,
you wrote:
Quote:
True...


But Lancs circa 2003 did some pretty dodgey FPNs to boost the Speed Awareness course... which rather undermined it badly. Of the folk we know to have been invited to it (practically ALL of the A&E in one hospital - and yeah .. I read some stats which gave the highly unlikely inference that we medics "are right speedt folk and more likely to get "done for it"!


Care to enlighten us about what you claim to be (Dodgy FPNs)?

The returns, Government figures and supporting documentation from LRSP & The LCC for that period are pretty amazing stuff but totally unexplainable!
Perhaps you could throw some light as to why!

Remember! NOBODY could go on a SAC in 2003 unless they were napped at 35mph ONLY! Not below, not above!


Last edited by yimitier on Mon Apr 13, 2009 16:08, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 15:36 
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Mad Moggie you posted in 2004:
Quote:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=694

The fixed Gatso's up until April were pinging people as low as 3 mph over, whilst a BiB operated zap was at 10%+2 setting - or appears to be case from our Speeding Hill Billy's "research" - ( he has a golfing pal in the Lancs Force! :wink: )

However, a colleague is fighting a NIP issued to him at 34mph when he triggered it back in March on return to see to a patient. He tells me he will be sending copy to our Paulie as soon as his lawyers have finished with it!. Some of the nurses have been invited to this course over past couple of years -and some claim their NIPs were at 34mph too! Have asked them to dig them out for me - but not always in hospital at same time as these nurses!

I note as well that your "Black Rat" says "Official line" - I would set as much credence to it as the "official" in those government statistics on scamera success! :wink:


However I can't find a follow up to this!

If, as you claimed then that people were being offered, paying & actually attending these courses after being caught below 35mph then these people can demand not only their payment back but also claim loss of earnings, travel costs etc.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN CONNED!

The Partnership confirmed to the Department of Transport that ALL speed awareness offers would be made at 35mph ONLY: as per ACPO guidelines 10%+2 being THE PROSECUTION THRESHOLD!

I.E. YOU DON'T GET DONE BELOW THE THRESHOLD of 35mph. At 35 mph you get the offer of a SAC!

The offer of these courses outside these guidelines, with an accompanying letter(I have copy) that prosecution MAY take place in case of a refusal to participate is intimidating, misleading & illegal!
Do you wish to share your findindings with us as promised!
Nobodody can now be prosecuted (They wouldn't have been anyway!) but maybe if enough people had been conned in this manner they could take a class action against LCC & Lancs CON-STABULARY for damages & show up these con men for what they really are!

All these people can be traced through the NIP issuing number that contains all their details the alledged speed and vehicle details. A data protection application will reveal all!

I'm sure I would spend a tenner for a return of possibly a couple of hundred quid! Worth a try! I think even "Mr Loophole" (All TMs & copyright acknowledged) would be very interested in this (il)legal "loophole"!

Now that would certainly hit them where it hurts! IN THEIR POCKETS!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 19:46 
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yimitier wrote:
Mad Moggie you posted in 2004:
Quote:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=694

The fixed Gatso's up until April were pinging people as low as 3 mph over, whilst a BiB operated zap was at 10%+2 setting - or appears to be case from our Speeding Hill Billy's "research" - ( he has a golfing pal in the Lancs Force! :wink: )

However, a colleague is fighting a NIP issued to him at 34mph when he triggered it back in March on return to see to a patient. He tells me he will be sending copy to our Paulie as soon as his lawyers have finished with it!. Some of the nurses have been invited to this course over past couple of years -and some claim their NIPs were at 34mph too! Have asked them to dig them out for me - but not always in hospital at same time as these nurses!

I note as well that your "Black Rat" says "Official line" - I would set as much credence to it as the "official" in those government statistics on scamera success! :wink:


However I can't find a follow up to this!

If, as you claimed then that people were being offered, paying & actually attending these courses after being caught below 35mph then these people can demand not only their payment back but also claim loss of earnings, travel costs etc.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN CONNED!

The Partnership confirmed to the Department of Transport that ALL speed awareness offers would be made at 35mph ONLY: as per ACPO guidelines 10%+2 being THE PROSECUTION THRESHOLD!

I.E. YOU DON'T GET DONE BELOW THE THRESHOLD of 35mph. At 35 mph you get the offer of a SAC!

The offer of these courses outside these guidelines, with an accompanying letter(I have copy) that prosecution MAY take place in case of a refusal to participate is intimidating, misleading & illegal!
Do you wish to share your findindings with us as promised!
Nobodody can now be prosecuted (They wouldn't have been anyway!) but maybe if enough people had been conned in this manner they could take a class action against LCC & Lancs CON-STABULARY for damages & show up these con men for what they really are!

All these people can be traced through the NIP issuing number that contains all their details the alledged speed and vehicle details. A data protection application will reveal all!

I'm sure I would spend a tenner for a return of possibly a couple of hundred quid! Worth a try! I think even "Mr Loophole" (All TMs & copyright acknowledged) would be very interested in this (il)legal "loophole"!

Now that would certainly hit them where it hurts! IN THEIR POCKETS!



Well .. that was part of our issue with Lancs SCP as we found folk were on that course at 34 mph. Heck .. Wildy laid her hands on a NIP issued to one person where she works at 34 mph who chose to attend the course rather than have points on his licence. (There were three reps who were based at the HO in the South ,., but who were visiting NHS Trusts up here - all got done in Lancs -two at 34 mph and one at 35 mph.) This was when we woke up and started looking at speed cams a bit more closely than previously :roll:


Will ask Wildy if she has copy of her acquaintance's NIP scanned onto her computer somewhere. I think he let her have copy to send to Paul as well. We used his SAC mark sheet to prove that COAST exists officially :wink: .. plus some driver information/improvement cards he received on the anniverary of his SAC date which also mention COAST :wink:

In 2004 - one of my colleagues was pinged on his way back to hospital as his patient took a turn for worse just after he finished for the day. He was offered the course. He decided the fight the case and won on the basis he could prove "urgent" - but it took him 6 months to do so. When my colleague first received this NIP and raged about it for days - almost all of the A&E staff confirmed they had been on this same course .. pinged at the same margin of 34 mph .. with one even claiming 33 mph. :banghead: I never managed to collect all the paperwork despite pinning up notes in various staffrooms. The only sight I have of the 34 mph NIP was my colleague's and I think he sent copy to Paul at my request.

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Smilies are contagious
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It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 20:15 
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PS .. just to establish. I do not work A&E unless we have a really serious "red alert" and we all get drafted in to help - which has never happened yet.

My colleague is a surgeon .. cardiologist. I work with him on the cases whereby a virus attacked the heart muscle itself. He's a pal anyway. We are golfing chums.
:wink: in any case.


At the time of his NIP . the entire hospital where we were both based at the time was made aware of it as he was really seething about it. That's when we discovered that quite a numberf of staff had taken "occasional leave" to do this SAC course on claimed 34 mph (60%) All have told me that .

So .. if you are saying they can claim back lost earnings .. or lost rest leave .. then I want to know how so's I can pass on to them.

:)

You can pm me. I gather you are Lancs based? Maybe I can meet on way to/from work?

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 21:20 
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Despite the public belief that LRSP offer SAC it's the police!
When the Partnership started the Chief Constable set the policy and presented it to the Partnership to implement.
The Official Speeding policy in Lancashire under The Road Safety Camera Scheme until June 2004 was:

At 35mph a speed awareness course was offered.

Anything above that carried a FPN + 3 points.

No prosecutions would be pursued below 35mph under the ACPO guidelines 0f 10%+2 which set the prosecuting threshold to 35.

The Partnership could only deal with the FPNs.

SAC sare a private deal between The Road Safety Group & Lancashire Constabulary.

Because the Chief Constable would have to stand ALL the costs of administrating SACs out of his budget and not from FPN income, they did a deal with The Road Safety Group regarding costs being paid from the income of the SACs.

So if any mug paid, at that time,£95.00, for a SAC offer below 35 mph it would be extra income for The Road Safety Group!

If they didn't take the offer and had to accept the fine & three points then the prosecution/fine is illegal because they were below the threshold of prosecution, but how would anbody ever know ?

Quote:
How the law on speeding is enforced is an operational matter for the police. While they may follow a broad policy, whether their force's own or one recommended by the Association of Chief Police Officers, they will decide in each case whether they consider it appropriate to seek a prosecution, to offer a fixed penalty or to take some other measure. Amongst such other measures is the offer of attendance on a speed awareness course nm either by a local authority or independent provider Such courses are not part of the fixed penalty system. They are non-statutory measures designed to reeducate those attending on the dangers of speeding and effect a change in their driving behaviour. Attendance on the courses is at a person's own expense.

Vernon Coaker MP
PARUAMENTARY UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE
2 Marsham Street, London SW1P 4DF
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk
!5th July 2008


Quote:
Prosecution Thresholds & Disposal Methods

The Lancashire Constabulary has adopted the ACPO Speed Prosecution threshold policy, the only exception being that prior to 1st June 2004 offences detected at 35mph in a 30mph area are offered a Speed Awareness Course as an alternative to proceedings.
Source: LRSP Complete Operational Manual 04-05

Quote:
“The review is looking to introduce cautioning for the bottom-end range of speeding offences and at a different trigger-point for the speed awareness course that currently operates.“We will still be enforcing the law appropriately but with a better range of sanctions to bring a balance to the system and make sure the punishment is proportionate to the offence.“Quite simply, if we can achieve the same very positive outcomes of making our roads safer,whilst at the same time demonstrating that we do listen then I for one would be delighted.”Chief Constable Paul Stephenson June 2004


The trigger point for speed awareness courses was 35mph!!!

The speed awareness offer trigger point of 35 mph became a formal Caution in June 2004 under The Chief Constables change in policy!


All the rest is a con-A rip off!!

EVER BEEN HAD ?

I'm sure hot shot solicitors have known about this and kept it close to their chests; as they would!!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 22:14 
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yimitier wrote:
I'm sure hot shot solicitors have known about this and kept it close to their chests; as they would!!!!!


Yeah, the whole system is bent!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 07:14 
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This should also apply to anybody who has paid for a SAC at 35mph since June 2004, as THEY SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED A CAUTION!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:00 
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Have you got absolute proof of this ? by any chance? pls or know who/where to ask could do an interesting FOI.

PLus the file links (a way back but 'above') ask for money from RapidShare... I couldn't see a free way? Failing that can you not send them to 'Yousendit.com' they do have a free service? Or just send them to me directly please?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 14:18 
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Everything stated is from Information from all the involved parties obtained under FOI applications & Government publications.
Have pm you for details.
Rapidshare has a free download facility.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 19:21 
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This is for safespeedv2 & mad moggie & anybody else with interest:
Image Official ACPO guidelines published by the Government & agreed to by ALL parties operating a Safety Camera Partnership.
Get the full publication here:
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/POSTpn218.pdf
ALL LRSP members agreed to abide by these rules in order to be granted Partnership status and enter into the "Cost netting off" system.
Image
This Operation Manual was removed from their website when questions got tricky. Download here (as a free user, it's a very small file)
http://rapidshare.com/files/221276830/C ... _04-05.rar

So.. who authorised the cameras in Lancashire to be set to react at any speed above 30mph & why? How can any speed awareness course be offered, as widely reported in many forums, at 32,33,34, mph without photographic evidence showing these speeds?
Just in case anyone may think that this is not original, the original author forgot to clear the properties box in MS Office (Prat!) and it is clear who wrote it, when & that it is genuine from Lancashire County Council

Image

Lancashire Cautioning Policy Today!
Image

From their site:
http://www.safe2travel.co.uk/more_info. ... ent_id=108

So if anybody has been offered a SAC at 35 since June 2004, and paid for one, or decided to take the fine & points; You've been stuffed!!! If you qualified for a SAC as a first time offendor; you should just have received a CAUTION! BUT THERE'S NO MONEY IN CAUTIONS!

There are many documents available but these should show how the scam works & must be official despite The Chief Constable Constable setting rules that have to be broken to bring in the cash!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 09:41 
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Here's how the LRSP PR B*ll*h*t works!
Image

Quote:
"I can assure Mr Barber that no motorist in Lancashire has ever been prosecuted for driving at 33mph or 34mph in a 30mph zone.

New thresholds for people caught speeding mean that in a 30mph zone, prosecution is now only automatic at 38mph, when previously it was at 36mph. You see, there was never zero tolerance."

LINDA SANDERSON, Communications Manager, Lancashire Partnership for Road Safety,

http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/2 ... 86148.html

Oh is that right Linda ?
Here's a couple of examples of LRSP "prosecutions", from hundreds throughout the web & local newspapers!
Read on:


Image
http://archive.asianimage.co.uk/2006/1/19/882906.html
Image
http://www.southportforums.com/forums/s ... p?p=638810
Image
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/pers ... afety.html

Also Wildcat wrote:
Quote:
But ist about nailing at 33/34mph still und giving them the Speed Course

Quote:
http://66.29.138.186/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4080&p=46139


So what did you know Wildcat?
Care to share your knowledge about this SAC scam ?

I don't know how the rest of the country operate their SACs but according to this:
Quote:
Hansard
Several police forces now offer "low-end speeders" the option of going on speed awareness courses, and that will be in the Bill as a disposal available to the courts. The Association of Chief Police Officers is putting in place a national programme of awareness courses, which, of course, we welcome.

This National programme was brought in in 2006 to STANDARDISE courses so they have to operate within ACPOs guidelines or they don't operate!

REMEMBER ACPO guidelines 10%+2!!!; sets the PROSECUTION THRESHOLD and recomended camera operation speed!! No photo:NoCrime!

ACPOs Rules here:
http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/ ... x02x06.pdf

Who's kidding who ? ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££s

The responsible people operating these scams,"IN THE NAME OF THE CHIEF CONSTABLE! should be done for obtaining money under false pretences! Any other business would!!


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