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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 23:18 
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There are cowboys and there are highly professional infrastructure providers. The problem with the 'utility sector' is that even many of the most senior managers are essentially jumped up navvies but slowly and surely this is changing.

I can assure you that legislation such as the New Roads and Streetworks Act and the recent Traffic Management Act put an extremely rigorous legislative framework around the whole issue.....should the local authorites choose to enforce.

There should be no excuse for 'loose gravel and custard thin surfacing', if you're interested in this you'll no doubt be aware of the HAUC Specification for the Reinstatement of Openings in the Highway which is a partcularly tight spec with little wriggle room.

I would urge you to complain, to claim and to have absolutely no tolerance of potholes and poor workmanship on OUR roads. So don't whinge and make snide comments about custard, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You'll also no doubt be aware of the profile that roadworks in London currently have under the Boris regime.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 23:40 
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Hate to say it .. both Mad Doc und IG raised this ugly sitiation in 2006 , und in all the CW und local news reports

Ach .. :drink: :bighand:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 02:49 
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Funnily enough the Essex Chronicle are running a pothole campaign at the moment, did you get through Claire or do you still need a contact name / number mate ?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 08:21 
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Lum wrote:
weepej wrote:
A statement so ironic it's hard to beat.


Ironic but true. A proper 4x4 will be designed to cope with being knocked around a bit by rough terrain and the suspension setup will not get damaged the way it would on a small "supermini"



Even you've missed the irony of somebody suggesting the way to deal with potholes is to purchase an inordinately large and heavy vehicle...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 08:25 
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civil engineer wrote:
Report the defect, the HA will issue a defect notice to the utility company, the company will be charged for the defect, charged for the inspections.


Oh I report them all right. I reported a badly broken up cross roads recently and they replaced the whole thing.

I use this initally and then if nothing happens I write to the council/Tfl depending on who's responsible for the road.

http://www.fillthathole.org.uk/

I gather LCC convinced some road inspections teams the best way to go out for looking for potholes was on a pushbike.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:40 
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weepej wrote:
Even you've missed the irony of somebody suggesting the way to deal with potholes is to purchase an inordinately large and heavy vehicle...


4x4 doesn't necessarily mean large and heavy. Something like a Suzuki Samurai would do the trick. Maybe even a Fiat Panda, but I don't know how strong they are.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:22 
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Lum wrote:
weepej wrote:
Even you've missed the irony of somebody suggesting the way to deal with potholes is to purchase an inordinately large and heavy vehicle...


4x4 doesn't necessarily mean large and heavy. Something like a Suzuki Samurai would do the trick. Maybe even a Fiat Panda, but I don't know how strong they are.


How does driving more wheels improve their pothole-resistance?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:32 
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Yep go through and got out a PR on it :) ... there are various organisations doing Pot Hole Campaigns .... due to the severity of the problems encountered by all.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:40 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
How does driving more wheels improve their pothole-resistance?


On it's own, it does not hence why I'm not recommending 4wd vehicles like the Subaru Impreza for this purpose.

However vehicles designed for offroad use, such as the ones I mentioned above are designed to be knocked about by uneven surfaces without suffering damage. Such vehicles are invariably going to be 4wd, they are not always going to be huge and heavy.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:27 
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The only holes that can be dug [in roads] without notice and authority, are those for emergency repairs to utilities. The rest have to be planned and authorised.
The reason that holes exist, and get larger, is because of traffic. Once you get a crack in the surface all you need is water and the hydraulic effect of the traffic will destroy the surface rapidly.
I had a day down by the sea last week....I noted that the roads in Norfolk are much better than the roads in Bedfordshire.
Bedfordshire roads are patrolled by a large team of nice new van/estates and the holes are then marked, and ignored for months.
It's all down to the separate councils, and how much bother they get slung in their direction. Oh, and if you cause them too much hassle your calls will get ignored.....council switchboards show your called id when you call them !

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:46 
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jomukuk wrote:
Oh, and if you cause them too much hassle your calls will get ignored.....council switchboards show your called id when you call them !


You can withhold your number by dialling 141 and then the council phone number.

Also, I happened to flick over to the news on NHK World (Japanese station) the other week. They were having a debate about spending on road repairs. Apparently at the moment Japan sends out those road surveying vans do to each road every day, and an inspection on foot is done once a month (with footage of a pair of guys in hard hats standing at the roadside, one prods his foot against a curbstone that is about 1cm higher than it's neighbour while the other notes it down on a clipboard)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 14:07 
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We have to draw a distinction between roads that are simply falling apart through age and Wear & Tear and failing utility reinstements.

Utility companies are responsible for their reinstements for 2 years and 3 years if the excavation is greater than 3m. The councils will only to be happy to inform the utility companies of these failures if made aware.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 23:01 
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Decided to pop into here


I will comment on all these news items later. :wink:

FOR NOW . I paste up and say NOWT :popcorn:

Note. English =SOE.. as mine. Go figure :rotfl:

BBC wrote:
Motorists 'drive over' roadworks

Boris Johnson hopes the plans will ease congestion in the capital
Motorists in London will be able to drive over covered holes caused by roadworks when they are not being worked on to help cut congestion.

Thames Water said it would cover the work trenches with plates when they were not in use so roads that would otherwise be coned off could be used.

Mayor Boris Johnson has also urged utility companies to give more information on their planned works.

He called for information boards to be put up warning of delays.

Gas, water, electricity and other companies will be made to sign a code, promising to cause minimal disruption when work needs to be done.

Londoners will be able to report companies who break the code.

'Invisible army'

Residents who notice untidy or unattended works will be able to voice their concerns on the Transport for London (TfL) website.

Utility companies will also have to dig up roads outside peak hours where possible to ease congestion in the capital.

Mr Johnson said: "By making these pledges the utility companies have agreed that the simply incredible situation of their being allowed to dig up any road in the capital with little notice and even less co-ordination must now end.

"None of us can escape the frustration of sitting with engine idling or pedal poised at road works manned by an invisible army of workers.

"There may sometimes be a good reason for this and sometimes there is not."

According to TfL 300,000 holes are dug in roads by utility companies in London each year without adequate notice.

Last year Mr Johnson accused ministers of "shilly shallying" over proposals to introduce a roadworks permit scheme.


:popcorn:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 23:11 
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Interesting, I remember hearing someone ranting about how digging up roads in the capital works.

Apparently you can only apply to dig a particular bit of road on the morning of the day you do it. If you application is unsuccessful you wont be told why but you get to try again tomorrow. If your application is successful then you can obviously go ahead.

The person complaining about this was trying to do a cable run across the capital, they had to apply each day for each leg of the run, occasionally they'd run in to areas that they just couldn't ever get approval for, at which point they'd have to backtrack and try a different route.

Not only does this make it massively expensive and result in more roadworks than are actually necessary, it also means that advance notice simply cannot be given.


I've not been following what goes on in London for a while, but has Boris actually fixed this scheme?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 23:21 
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But I read in AUTO EXPRESS ( a much better rag than AUTOCAR :wink: that one council employed a mobile pot hole repairer . which is cost effective. Article was last June.. :popcorn:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 23:41 
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Lum wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
How does driving more wheels improve their pothole-resistance?


On it's own, it does not hence why I'm not recommending 4wd vehicles like the Subaru Impreza for this purpose.

However vehicles designed for offroad use, such as the ones I mentioned above are designed to be knocked about by uneven surfaces without suffering damage. Such vehicles are invariably going to be 4wd, they are not always going to be huge and heavy.


Also, vehicles of that type (big 4x4s) tend to have tyres with much deeper sidewalls and wheel rims that can take a bit of a kicking. That helps prevent the shocks being trasnmitted quite so badly into the rest of the suspension. The transmission is a red herring in this context. They don't need the traction, just the ruggedness.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 02:33 
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I don't see how TfL can complain about adequate notice unless they are different than other parts of the Countries Councils. Mine has a min of 15days to Notice all other Services of a road works and they have to approve the contractor and the works before they even give the notice!
Sounds to me like a classic case of TfL not talking to other parts of the Council.
They could use a good database on road works that many could access and then everyone would know - now that would be a great help ! (and utterly obvious and common sense!).

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 23:37 
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Although large 4x4's are ideal for for the broken potholed streets mostly due to the ruggedness, the 4 wheel drive does play a part, as when a drive wheel unloads on said surface you still have 3 out of 4 driven wheels instead of 1 out of 4. Which could be the difference between being in control and not. Potholes being often accompanied by a lose, gravelly surface too.

I miss my mitsu L400:( Lifted suspension, ideal city runnabout.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 00:25 
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Although this has little to do with the pot hole issue.

The fact that I was able to get my Mum to hospital back in Feb (In my Landcruiser) in all that snow and ice has paid for all the fuel it will EVER USE!

(Round here, and I'm in SW Surrey here, the Police were actualy asking for people to loan their 4X4's)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 05:34 
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Right! Unaccustomed to plain speaking as I am, and being of an "Old Labour" mind......

Where the Hell are these cretins coming from? Not from the Labour party that I knew, that's for sure!

I'm even beginning to suspect something fishy about the death of John Smith and the the rise of T.Bliar as leader of Noo Labia!

Sorry, I'll calm down now.....
I've traveled many roads in Europe, East and West. I've seen good roads and I've seen bad.
I can tell you folks, GB is the worst of the lot! They've got better roads in Poland!
My local town is St. Helens in Merseyside. Anyone who wishes to:........ Please check out the roads there! .....They have to be the worst in Britain. Yet the Noo Labour" government rates St Helens Council as "one of the best" ! I wonder why?........(at saving money no doubt).

The roads in Germany are like billiard tables...........even the little country lanes!

With ALL the tax and STEALTH FINES that we pay, can't we expect better? Than a Nationwide network of POTHOLES and a 20mph limit!
We may as well all buy a horse to pull our cars!

What a state for the 4th (or is it 5th) richest nation on earth to be in.


Scrap the £75 Billion (and rising) commitment to Trident Gordon!
WE are NOT a world power anymore! WE CAN'T afford it!

Oh! and BTW. Get out and let Old Labour back in! You're not our kind anymore.

.....and you tories? I wouldn't vote for you if that were the only option!

Sorry all, for being so reticent at expressing my views. :)


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