Safe Speed Forums

I seem to recall the police officer claiming this. The others witnesses said they crossed the road. One of the young crowd there said back in May that he thought Hayley was behind him .. then he heard the sickening thud behind him. I speculated at the time that a romantically minded young girl will have paused to blow a kiss to her boyfriend watching from the window as this seemed perfectly natural to me.. the sort of thing my own daughters might do und certainly what I once did at that young age too. I even do the same now.. pause to blow kisses at the Mad Doc when setting off to do the weekly shoppo. (Not at present . cannot drive or ride motorbike or even cycle as doctors have vetoed till they think me fit enough now. Today's medical .. was a set back again. Ach.. dingsbumstits..


But when I followed the video link as per the BBC.. I found myself feeling a sick cold .. my tongue had a tin like taste .. at how he accelerated like that . An ANPR alert mean lapsed insurance/VED/MOT. It does not mean whoever commit some more serious crime.

Also .. given the notorious inaccuracy .. und I asked my own insurers about this when I renew in mid Feb.. it so easy to miss an entry to punch into computer given the high volumes of data per minute. I think we have to address how we make best of the technology available to us given the enormous grief these errors can cause to innocents.

Look up the BBC link. It play a video of his driving up to point of impact. It will shock you all??

I think we only see this now he found guilty.


Check the link. I now saw video on that site since.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7990413.stm

Again .. I highlight the lesson to learn. In short this article say all I said when arguing against the police mob surge on PH's Over Kellet thread. I have been proven right all the same by the experts in each case - which include the Lancs police bosses in the Over Kellett case. (Even then the arrogant internet bibs on another forum told me that the onus of proof at these disciplinaries was lesser. I care not. Outcome stripped them of status - which affects pay... career ladder. I think a lot more serious when a career und professional reputation on the line.. but perhaps I judge subjectively on what disciplines control me und the Mad Doc professionally here




I feel for his haunting conscience. I fully understand this. He will HURT to a level only those who did such that will understand. It lasts for all involved. I happen to know this for its reality from our own black hole where we lost Ferdl und .. I had the incident (I was the non fault victim) which deeply hurt my family a second time.

I am a human being here. I try to understand each side of the hurts.






.

I said the same as Gary G in the Over Kellett thread to the guy who kept reporting my posts as constant - und constantly accusing me of being "anti-bib"... which eventually got me "shot" (You can find it in archives over there .. but I did say more or less the same thing ... fluffed with the smilies we use to earn a pennies for charities we support (I have yet to make a formal explanation on the smiley thing..

I am not anti-police. I am not commenting negatively on the police here. I know what maketh a policeman .. from the relatives across mine undMad Doc's respective family origins . Police demand much from the candidates. (Alan Sugar could learn much there when recruiting his "apprentices" ) I am commenting on this one officer's tragic mistake. I cannot condone . I would not condone any person behaving irresponsibly so who they are.

I will state that we are only ever as good as the last event-free . happy contented ::steering: drive. If we make serious error which kill .. then training und expertise count for nothing. We judged on the fatally stupid mistakes made on that occasion. It matter not if police.. ambulance driver.. fire engine driver. medic on a green light./ RoSPA golden girly girl like me.. Make the fatal mistake. You get judged on that und that alone.

.
I think this comment try to explain why we "(Team Swiss") keep doing the COAST reminders "ad nauseam" to the old hands . No one can afford not to maintain these skills .. can they.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Ingrained. I have to say my swimming against a tide of such minded who invaded a much loved forum land normal minded in unaccustomed bother.

Such types do not help. They feed the myths of MOP v Police. Deepen the abysss of mutual distrust.

But East Germans eventually erupted. It will go on for so long. then we dissidents will win through by strategic chess/pure logical outsmarting tactics

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Liebchen


I think we have more in common than we once thought here.

I have never denied physics. I do not support a gimmick. I do not support a speed camera as our road user's salvation on the basis that they just do not educate.. retrain.. nor improve standards. They ping the blips. The blatttin wideboys are what Callaghan may call "manipulators" who slow for the scam und speed up to extreme thereafter

I don't. I like to keep it steady safe. Constant. I admit it fluctuate up und down by whisker margins. but as average .. I stay legally compliant. Must do as never to date had any NIP und I intend to keep this cleanliness for me as matter of feline pride


I do not ever suggest no speed limits. I think many need re-assessing as most are plain daft. I disagree with the blanket lowering of NSL as many A single carriage trunks are safe enough at 60 mph. I will agree that changing communities may require speed limit changes as und when.. to reflect further built up areas.. but within reasoned logical reason or "joined up thinking" all the same.

Dcb .. I do not subscribe to .. nor condone stupidity. Safespeed.. safety matter. I want folk to learn to evaluate each drive they do. und be encouraged to LEARN as a constant requirment.

However, I am a realist. S/cams do not work as some will fervently will them to do. Only safespeed und a realistic evaluation of own skills will help/.

We have to be brutally honest with selves to make it work. Sadly . folk shirk this ulitmate challenge to their characters

Yes.. I can do the high speeds. I often do so when going to our lab in Penzheim, Germany as und when required. Or when returning to Appenzell via the "wilder way" .. if you catch up with my breath here

I have been quoting the foreign Highway Codes which spell out how far we travel per second at any speed. I have to say after testing on track . they are correct on that. I think they are correct to do so. The continentals updated in 2007. I think we see fruition result in 2012 as those learning from this revision gain expertise as far as EU goes. UK has not grasped this significance in learnign curve yet. They will perhaps do so when rest of EU out =-perform though

OK .. so I admit I am more loyal to original "Heimat "than adopted UK "Heimat" in such respects. But I think UK can learn from EU und vice versa too.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Wildcat. Langsam un sicher gehen was what the Austrian Berg-fuhrer told us. Perhaps good advise on the roads too

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I should do this in CHAT or SOAPBOX.


Maybe Steve und Roger can sort??




Liebchen..


You know .. we do see eye to eye here


You speak good German

I been told by a psychologist that I rebel against English.


I make the chatty personal aside to you in smal print here. It may make you see me better regard??

My own German language ist NOT officially recognised by UN etc German not UN lingo cos they "lost war" ,, but Swiss are "neutral" country with High German standard as one official ling .. .. Swiss Kantonese German..(Only recently standardised to Zurich version. We all have our own Kantonal version But we have standard French.. Italian,, Romansch all of which I speak a heck of a lot more fluently than English despite English Mama from Yorkshire ., (Yep .. go figure that one. She spoke pigeon "High-Schwyz German" (which she learn) to me when she should have immersed me from birth in English.. I was the youngest one - she too busy by then. I am not making same error. Our kids speak Standard High German to me only. I use Standard High German to them. They speak only in English to Ted und outside world in UK., They speak German in Geman speaking countries und French/Italian where required as I had to do a girl.

Their Discpline as within this family nucleus?? : Held in lingo of the parent "holding such court"

I know what you mean here though. We are not that far polarised in general opinion dcb. . I just do not do speed cam or associated gimmick

I know you hate the smiley abuse per comments, We do have reason for using these guys

But that apart.. we not that far apart in point of view und for the record . I may not always agree with you... but I still respect you. Respect your point of view. We cannot all agree on everything. Hell .. me und Mad Doc have real cat fights over this und that. It normal to have such differences as we all hve freedom of thought und speed for now.


That apply to all here by the way.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Where does 104mph come from? Or your earlier post referring to 120mph? The facts are sufficient, gross overkill defeats your argument.

_________________
The only thing that should be prohibited is prohibition.

Mea Culpa I misread the original article.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

From afar there seems to be a consistency in direction of some elements of the Police (I exclude In Gear from this as his posts here indicate the opposite) exemplified by incidents such as this and others referred here and elsewhere as well as the death of a non-protestor at G20, treatment of demonstrators at the Country Alliance demo against the Hunting Bill. There are some who believe that the uniform and status means they can do no wrong; statements, including in Court, that are plainly wrong; general standover tactics on the ordinary upstanding citizen gives me the impression that there is a decline in the standards of behaviour in the police.

You are not alone though. We have some of the best Police Forces that money can buy

It does seem to me that too much PC forced on PCs (Political Correctness forced on Police Constables) generates frustration and bureaucratic targets turn attention from "Keeping the Queen's peace" (which I think is the foundation of policing) into automatons which encourages the standover tactics on the fundamentally good people and allows the over zealous to prosper. In my experience over zealous individuals, no matter what their field, believe they can do no wrong even when, as in this case, it has been irrefutably demonstrated.

This does not mean that I deplore the judicious application of a size 12 boot to the backside of some recalcitrant yob in appropriate cases.

_________________
The only thing that should be prohibited is prohibition.

MFL raises a number of points.. so sorry Johnnytheboy - if I reply in more 2 lines. For your benefit I have chunked down the points MFL raises into numbered paragraphs

Back to my first ever post on this board. I was replying to "willcove" who expressed concern at the way we train on the public roads as I recall.

I will repeat what I said then:

1. We have to train on the roads with the public as we will be driving on our shouts with them sharing the roads with us. Makes sense for us to train and interact with the public then. This helps us develop the skills we need when all's said and done.

2. We are not allowed to sacrifice safety margins - nor endanger the target vehicle nor any other road user. If we do - we answer for it in harsh disciplinaries and can even end up facing very criminal charges like this officer.

3. I have never subscribed to the view that I have been trained.. wear a uniform and can thus do what I like at any one point in my career to date. As far as driving goes - I am careful, I certainly do not think I know it all because each drive brings up some new challenge to defend against. BY stating this - I would hope to encourage others to think about their driving and evaluate their skills objectively and honestly. You can only begin to improve once you accept you ain't perfect here.

4. As regards the G20 death alluded to by MFL above - I am appalled at what I saw on the news report. I have seen comments elsewhere from some tryng to justify that officer's actions.


summary of comments read elsewhere wrote:
(The guy refused to move for a police van a few minutes prior to this.. had walked slowly...)





Does not matter if he was ahead of an officer muttering obscenities under his breath - you simply do not shove someone like that as that would be unreasonable or unjustifiable force. We can only use force to restrain a suspect if said suspect is giving us cause to do so .. such as violently resisting arrest.. attacking us and so on. The Met are quite correct in suspending the officer pending a full investigation. It may be that this investigation reveals an degree of provocation or undue stresses placed on the officers on what would have been a very hard and extremely demanding day. But even so - the level of violence shown - truly shocking and difficult to justify.

5. Back to this topic. The officer seems to have forgotten the basic rule of his training. We are supposed to take account of the road type.. and the speed of the car which aroused suspicions. As regards ANPR - we have to check these out immediately - and we also are aware - or rather this Force is aware - that ANPR may not always be 100% accurate. If the driver can prove his identity.. can give us something to reassure - we deal with it - hopefully appropriately and fairly. From the reports as given from this trial and the video as released after his conviction - he was very much in the wrong.

However, as the driver who caused a death - I think he will live out the same traumatic aftershocks as the bereaved family - but in a different sense of guilt and regrets for a young life lost.

Finally MFL - thank you for your kind comments. I try to help build the damned bridges back - but without compromising the law nor my position - referred to by that darned cat as a "pillock of society" (She can get away with calling me rude names .. except when I am on duty .. as that's when I might just arrest her )


You are correct about targets. We do not like them either .. nor the paperwork they generate.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Wildy has already commented on this above. How far can we trust ANPR and what lessons can the police learn .. given that they will have to check these pings but are at the mercy of crap updating?

Off topic remark . if they cannot get these details correct . .and these details only include registered motor cars .. then can we afford to trust ID cards?



OK .. but she was not drunk .. per the autopsy also put to that court apparently. Yes . I know... but we have kids and we have to deal with a lot of teenage hormonal rebellions/challenges to us. Never easy. You try to steer them to the decent course ... but take your chances /hedge your bets all the same



Lucky? I do not know. I feel for the man and the Adamson family alike. What decent human being could not? I accept he never thought in worst nightmare that this would happen. No one does. No one sets out to do so. But we are only ever as good as the last safe drive/road use so how we travel.



I think so too. Wildy has issues with his insistence that he considered he was "safe" But she did say on PH that she was sure he would feel the same horror that all innocents caught up in such tragedy do all the same. I agree with her as we are just too aware of what those involved in our own personal black holes felt .. and the lorry driver and the widow of the man who nearly ended Vrenchen's life and mine as I know/enjoy my life with her.. tried . suicide and I thank God that they failed.

I do feel for him and his family just as much as I feel for Hayley and her family. No one would ever knowingly infllict such on another.. especially a police officer who sees so much human nastiness as his day job.

I will not condone all the same... but I worry about the Pavlov dog effect an ANPR alert seems to have on even those trained to a very high level here .. and I am now questioning this apparently programmed reaction.


Maybe Pc Dougal is not quite so much to blame here. Perhaps those training him to respond to ANPR as he did .. are more so?

YES . I am raising a THORNY one here.. But I think right to open up to debate??? YES???





Yes.. and he shattered his own life... his family.. his career too.

A very terrible tragedy for all. I feel so sorry for each party and can only pray time heals and that Pc Dougal and the Adamsons achieve the same shared bond of mutual forgiveness and even friendship we achieved with those who almost pushed us all down a deep black hole once.

I have other links as mailed to be by my wife earlier today. I will paste up after my evening supper which is now ready as lovingly cooked by my wild wife.. home made tomato soup .. followed by baked fish with baby roasted pototoes . and seasonal veg. YUM and a slice of her "devil choc cake"

I will have my supper.. play with my kids and then perhaps play a bit more on here as I find it somehow "cathartic"to vent spleen on car stuff after a hard day'swork


The footage shows Pc Dougal's journey before the accident[/quote]

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I will put in bold some mitigation for the officer in this piece.



http://www.newsguardian.co.uk/latest-ne ... 5227762.jp

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/4 ... choolgirl/



However, whatever he did as a 16 -20 year old has no bearing whatsoever and I think introduced just to swipe at him when already down.


Another news article (Northern Echo) remarks on the effect on the officer's wife, child and elderly, disabled father.

It was an error of judgement - a serious one and proves exactly what my wife was saying to some complacent fool on the PH board who kept insisting that this officer and the Over Kellett ones should not be held to account "because of their training/exemption" etc Wildy kept telling them that they were like anyone else - only as good as the last safe drive... and subject to the same law as anyone else when if goes pear shaped.. correctly so.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.