Safe Speed Forums

Some days ago I am driving along the motorway when suddenly come to a mass of cars.

It's just a traffic enforcement car driving along at about 60-65 odd, and yet no-one is in front and there is a huge stack of cars behind it. Scattered over all 3 lanes.

It is a bit difficult to believe that about 15 people have less sense than I do, but there they were, all stacked up behind the car, afraid to go past.

And yet it was doing under the limit.

I went past and a fair few followed.

Drivers are not *that* stupid are they? I am aware of a minority being dumb - examples are rife in this forum - but to encounter so many at once?

_________________
If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

Not so much stupid, it’s probably more a case of simple ignorance.

Many people believe the speedo tolerance can be +/- 10% i.e. that they can underread. This of course shouldn't happen (but it does, I’ve driven a car with an underreading speedo) but they’ll assume worst case tolerance based on what they know (plus sometimes a bit more for peace of mind). Of course, speedos usually overread by a bit. Hence someone driving a car with a speedo overreading by half the allowed amount (5% + 3mph), driving assuming their speedo is underreading by 10%, would be doing a true 58 in a 70.
Anyone who knows they have an accurate speedo will see this massive differential.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The stupidity is in not calibrating the speedometer when they get the car. But I can't really envisage a public information campaign on the lines of "A properly calibrated speedometer allows you to travel a little bit faster"

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Also worth of note is that I could see a lot of people had satnav in their cars, which also gives the speed you are travelling at.

_________________
If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

I don't doubt that. These people could have been playing it safe by taking the higher reading (obviously the speedo) as well as adding their own tolerance for peace of mind. They could even have just been going with the flow. Besides, not all Sat Navs give a speed reading.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I've seen people not overtaking police cars on dual carriageways going at just 55/60 before now. There are a lot of stupid people out there.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

It may be that they assess the risk of getting a ticket and the consequent affect it may have on their income as higher than the danger from driving far too close to other vehicles. I suspect that the perception is that speeding will get you a ticket whereas you get away with driving too close most of the time.

_________________
Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Wasn't there a famous Jasper Carrott sketch about that once?

It just seems to be human nature. I don't know why. I've never had a problem passing traffic cops on a motorway at up to 85 (in appropriate conditions). Discretion is the key to good enforcement, I think. Something sadly lacking in a camera!

Yes , I think there was. It would be quite funny to see if a cop car went at 20 MPH on a motorway or dual, how many "followers" it could pick up in a couple of miles stretch ...

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I suspect people are scared of the police. I know I am. they are bullies and thugs. I don't want to be harassed by them. How can I be sure that my speedo is accurate? How can I be sure they won't do me just to make some more money? How do I know they won't hurt me?

_________________
Andrew.

But trafpol are the saviours of safe driving according to many...?

They are, but you still get the occasional bad apple. I'm sure we can all agree the great majority of police aren't bullies and thugs; I'm equally sure we can agree that not all police aren't.

All considered, trafpol still trumps speed camera enforcement.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The posts considered to be potentially inappropriate, as well as subsequent posts relating to them, have been moved from this thread and placed into a private area.

There is also a chance that the police car had just canceled his B's&T's ? How far ahead was he when you very first spotted him and the 'pack' ?

Might he /she also have done one of those Police pull in's after zooming along the motorway at about 90mph, and then slow and ease into the traffic. The local traffic might have been 'pausing in any action' to see what he was going to do next ....

I do agree lots of things could have been happening, and we may never find out, unless you call the local traffic unit, and give them the time/place and query it ?
S/He might also have just pulled back into the traffic and the pretty immediate build up of traffic might have been what you then noticed, just before people reacted to his actions.
Drivers will typically pause to see what any Police car might do, as no one wants to get in their way if they are about to 'act'. They may just have been in 'pause' mode ? What do you think? If many followed you, you might have just been the first to break the ice as it were, which may have been the case.
People are scared of the cops and so will rather hang back than entangle themselves in any possible trouble. Better wait than be 'sorry'. The sheep waiting is also highly plausible .... shows just how mindless / unauthoritive (and target driven), many Police are these days - sadly.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Not sure if that's directed at me, or Graball but...

I was coming up from quite a way away, and this group was there for a while. No sign of blues n twos being on (or whatever colour traffic enforcement have).

If something did happen, they were driving along behind it for at least a minute before I came up on it.

Probably obvious, but I didn't mention that it was in the slow lane, and all these other cars were behind it in various other lanes.

I would like to think that the police/traffic enforcement would use their disgression (though I wasn't going over the limit then anyway), but then I would given I don't have any points yet. Coppers are normal human beings, you get good ones and bad ones.

_________________
If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

those "traffic womble" cars (as they get reffered to as) are like marshalls at a race track and not the officials, they clear up and assist with accidents and breakdowns, not in policing the roads, they were set up to free up the police from attending minor incidents, so i do find it laughable when people anchor on when they see one thinking it is the rozzers.

To be fair, I thought they would have the powers to do me if I was speeding. Not knowing about them, I figured a car with 'traffic enforcement' on it (including lights on top) might nab me.

Though my confusion was about the load of people clustered behind it doing 60-65 on a motorway.

_________________
If you think everyone else around you is driving badly, perhaps it's time to examine your own driving.

The "traffic wombles" have no type-approved equipment for speed enforcement; also they wouldn't be trained in its use so wouldn't be able to issue a speeding ticket.

I've seen similar behaviour from drivers when eg a contractor's van with chevron markings on the rear is on the motorway, everyone goes into panic mode.

The question still has to be asked - if "speeding" is a victimless crime then why is it even a crime? Doing 71mph on the motorway (you almost certainly wouldn't get pulled for this!) is an offence. Why is 70mph safe but 71mph "dangerous"?

Again, are we catering for the lowest common denominator? As regulars may know I've driven many cars with differing performance envelopes. My current car (the A4) will out-accelerate, out-brake and out-corner the first car I had when I passed my test (1995 M-reg 1.1 Fiesta) by several orders of magnitude. I once reached 108mph in the Fiesta downhill with a tail wind and it wasn't comfortable at that speed - the A4 can reach 110mph in a few seconds without straining and more importantly can pull up from that speed quickly and safely.

I use these two cars as examples simply because they are two I'm most familiar with, however my point (in case it got lost in the noise) is that something which is hair-raising in one car would be perfectly routine in another.

Driver skill also comes into it of course but that's another discussion.

_________________
Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

I started driving in the early seventies when most cars had drum brakes all round and brake servos were a luxury and yet the NSL was 70MPH every where, not just motorways.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Todays speed limits are an insult to intelligent driving.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.