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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 21:31 
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http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/440 ... e_forward/

Quote:
Police ask M61 collision witness to come forward
10:34am Thursday 28th May 2009



Police are appealing to the driver of a silver 4x4 to come forward after a man was killed in Bolton.

Peter Rushton, 64, from New Moston, died after the car he was travelling in overturned.

Peter is survived by his cousin Christopher Howarth and his uncle Leslie Howarth, who live in Cheshire.

Peter was in a Vauxhall Corsa, which overturned after being involved in a collision between junctions 4 and 5 of the M61 northbound, shortly before 12.45pm on Sunday 24 May 2009.

Officers attended and Peter was pronounced dead at the scene.

The driver, a 48-year-old man, was airlifted to Wythenshawe Hospital, where he remains in treatment for broken bones.

A 38-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and bailed until 15 July 2009, pending further inquiries.

Police have now released a CCTV still of a silver 4x4 vehicle towing a large flatbed trailer in the hope of encouraging the driver to come forward.

The 4x4 was seen on CCTV travelling northbound on the M61 at about the time of the crash.

Police Constable Trevor Gibson, from GMP's Traffic Network Section, said: "I want to stress that in no way do we believe this vehicle was involved in the crash. We simply want to speak to the driver, as we believe he or she may be a key witness and if so, they have valuable information that will assist our investigation.

"Please, if you were in this car, call us."

Anyone with any information is asked to call traffic police on 0161 856 1550.




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 16:36 
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Quote:
Police have now released a CCTV still of a silver 4x4 vehicle towing a large flatbed trailer in the hope of encouraging the driver to come forward.

We are spying on you. YOU ARE BEING WATCHED!
Now come and confess.

Yeah, that'll encourage someone.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 21:09 
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Ziltro wrote:
Quote:
Police have now released a CCTV still of a silver 4x4 vehicle towing a large flatbed trailer in the hope of encouraging the driver to come forward.

We are spying on you. YOU ARE BEING WATCHED!
Now come and confess.

Yeah, that'll encourage someone.



Andrew .. sighhhhhhh! The article stresses that the driver of that vehicle is not involved. But whatever he or she saw can be crucial to establishing what happened - and for all you and I know - whatever the person saw may even help the defence..

We always appeal for witnesses to come forward for any incident. Whatever they saw - however small or insignificant they perceive it to be may just be that something which really helps serve justice in the long run. Luckily there was CCTV and I think GMP are right to publish for help. Remember his defence team will be privy to all witness statements taken from the occupants of that car so as to prepare the defence

Ziltro - hey c'mon! UK society ain't oppressive. We always appeal for witnesses. They help us and have nowt to fear. HONESTLY!



I know that as a democratic society - we MUST use our vote wisely and not vote for some freak party to register a misguided protest. Perhaps each constituency should look hard at their candidates and if they believe their MP has over-milked his/her expenses - then they deselect that person and select another more carefully. Idealistic silly me :shock: :shock: But after this scandal - tightening the rules - I guess we all have to live in some hope.
:popcorn:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 01:14 
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In Gear wrote:
Ziltro - hey c'mon! UK society ain't oppressive. We always appeal for witnesses. They help us and have nowt to fear. HONESTLY!

Name me three shops I can go to without suffering being videoed or having my movements logged?
Ok I know that's impossible, but I only know of two and they're in the 'wrong' direction.

I feel oppressed.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 09:21 
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Ziltro wrote:
In Gear wrote:
Ziltro - hey c'mon! UK society ain't oppressive. We always appeal for witnesses. They help us and have nowt to fear. HONESTLY!

Name me three shops I can go to without suffering being videoed or having my movements logged?
Ok I know that's impossible, but I only know of two and they're in the 'wrong' direction.

I feel oppressed.



But the CCTV tapes are re-recorded over most of the time. They are taken out of the shop's CCTV system only if they have suffered a break-in or other incident - and the tape would then be a part of any investigation/part of the evidence to support or disprove a case.

Hey - I know that's not what you want to hear. So far we do not have to wear tagging identity bracelets - unless convicted and subject to a tagging order as result.


I see little wrong with releasing a "memory jogging" photo of a car whose occupants may be able to help the investigation into this tragedy....

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:55 
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I think saying that there is an 'X' vehicle that they would like to talk to is one thing, to place their photo up in a public place is questionable and OTT (over the top) or mis-use. I wouldn't like my car placed in some public place, just because they were trying to reach me. I would like to HEAR about them trying to reach 'x' type car from 'x' location on 'x' date - perhaps on Crimewatch, or if crucial maybe a few secs on the news .... ! A picture says - we saw you now you come forward, it is more of a demand than a morally justifiable request. Perhaps they have website and add each request there (without pictures of our cars) but photos of the scene and place to help jog our memories!

George Orwell.....Protectionism isn't free.
Bearing in mind reports state that we are the most watch and filmed Nation in the World, it is no wonder that many feel observed.
When I go South I feel uncomfortable with all the 1000's of camera's, I never expect to do anything 'wrong' never mind illegal. It helps to divide the public and police.
To substitute Good and Proper Policing with cameras, is policing on the cheap, they have rarely proved that they work. As an 'Obs' they have their advantage, but cannot arrest people - you need Police presence on the ground. We tend to see more Police typically rushing a scene by car than by foot. What was wrong with a Policeman/woman whistling (radio-ing) for help? Police in earshot came rushing. Technology has drastically reduced the number of Police.

A recent report I saw said that Police on the street with cameras had reduced burglaries by 47% (in a short period) as they had been out 'in force' and although they had head cams it was the presence I believe that did the trick (than the cameras) ! :)
The head cams gave them evidence to back up any crime if and when seen, by a policewo/man at that moment. Now THAT is good, it is honorable, morally correct, and direct, and gains respect.
I dare say they were backed up by CCTV, but that made little difference to those on the ground. I think it is highly questionable to observe all the public, as if the authorities have some 'great fear' from us. It divides society and the benefit is minimal compared to proper policing.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:23 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
I think saying that there is an 'X' vehicle that they would like to talk to is one thing, to place their photo up in a public place is questionable and OTT (over the top) or mis-use. I wouldn't like my car placed in some public place, just because they were trying to reach me. I would like to HEAR about them trying to reach 'x' type car from 'x' location on 'x' date - perhaps on Crimewatch, or if crucial maybe a few secs on the news .... ! A picture says - we saw you now you come forward, it is more of a demand than a morally justifiable request. Perhaps they have website and add each request there (without pictures of our cars) but photos of the scene and place to help jog our memories!



They will have yellow witness appeal signs at the site. I gather this vehicle was spotted on the CCTV. GMP do not know if the driver/occupants saw anything but need him to come forward to supply any details. I do not see this as a demand .. more a request/appeal to that driver who may have seen something to help their investigations.

Quote:
George Orwell.....Protectionism isn't free.
Bearing in mind reports state that we are the most watch and filmed Nation in the World, it is no wonder that many feel observed.
When I go South I feel uncomfortable with all the 1000's of camera's, I never expect to do anything 'wrong' never mind illegal. It helps to divide the public and police.
To substitute Good and Proper Policing with cameras, is policing on the cheap, they have rarely proved that they work. As an 'Obs' they have their advantage, but cannot arrest people - you need Police presence on the ground. We tend to see more Police typically rushing a scene by car than by foot. What was wrong with a Policeman/woman whistling (radio-ing) for help? Police in earshot came rushing. Technology has drastically reduced the number of Police.


I agree that technology has not been used as sensbibly as it should be. Most of us have proven that by increasing beat and car patrols - we've reduced the petty and street crimes. We have perhaps a fairly compliant set of local motorists too :hehe: overall - perhaps because RPU" " lark around" :P I will concede that there are way too many cameras - but that if my car is damaged in a supermarket car park - my first stop will be to see if it was recorded on CCTV. All too often though - you find that the "camera lens was zooming on anywhere but the scene of your personal damage" Someone praged it. Left a note on the window sayng "Everyone thinks I'm leaving you my details. Your bad lucky day!" Fortunately - a paintless dent job at a cost of £80.






Quote:
A recent report I saw said that Police on the street with cameras had reduced burglaries by 47% (in a short period) as they had been out 'in force' and although they had head cams it was the presence I believe that did the trick (than the cameras) ! :)
The head cams gave them evidence to back up any crime if and when seen, by a policewo/man at that moment. Now THAT is good, it is honorable, morally correct, and direct, and gains respect.
I dare say they were backed up by CCTV, but that made little difference to those on the ground. I think it is highly questionable to observe all the public, as if the authorities have some 'great fear' from us. It divides society and the benefit is minimal compared to proper policing.



We have the tools of the trade. We have to learn to use them properly and fairly. If you overuse them - they lose their value and respect. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 16:03 
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I'm not surprised that people don't come forward for police appeals. The police have made the rod for their own back by prosecuting the wrong people. You call the police to report criminal damage by gypsy yobs and you get arrested for being a racist.

If the man in the silver 4x4 with trailer saw this appeal then why should he come forward and risk the police invesigating him. Everyone has some misdemeanour which can be held against them.

Quote:
Police Constable Trevor Gibson, from GMP's Traffic Network Section, said: "I want to stress that in no way do we believe this vehicle was involved in the crash. We simply want to speak to the driver, as we believe he or she may be a key witness and if so, they have valuable information that will assist our investigation.

Too bad nobody believes him.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 20:35 
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I admit to being chagrined that folk out there think this, I stress we don't. I know too much has transpired.


I WILL STRESS AGAIN - driver of that car may have vital information which may help GMP' s investigation.. may help CPS but may also work for defence all the same. They published for reason. GMP have reputation for fair and honest. :bow: Please do not read malice on part of GMP.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 22:48 
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In Gear wrote:
But the CCTV tapes are re-recorded over most of the time. They are taken out of the shop's CCTV system only if they have suffered a break-in or other incident - and the tape would then be a part of any investigation/part of the evidence to support or disprove a case.

I believe there are a lot of spy cameras which already log vehicle numberplates. I expect that data would be kept for a while longer. I'm fairly sure they will be doing the same if/when facial recognition software is developed to be good enough. I don't want a log of where I have been, no matter how long it is said to be stored for (at the moment).

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