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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 13:17 
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Show : BBC Radio Live
time 12:15 to 12:30 (approx)
Show 10:00 - 13:00
Interviewer : Victoria Derbyshire
Also on was Bournemouth Councils Mr Andrew Emery and a cyclist from Winchester.


I was also due to have appeared on SunTalk but it was on then off ... another day ...
SunTalk They were also to do a piece on this too today but now postponed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 14:00 
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ummm so... what is this about exactly ?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 15:33 
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Police in Bournemouth using "speed cameras" to measure cyclists proceeding too fast on the seafront. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 19:29 
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...which is pointless unless you can either ID the cyclists or apprehend them on the spot.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 20:22 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
...which is pointless unless you can either ID the cyclists or apprehend them on the spot.


And Charge them with what ?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 20:47 
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oh .. that story... sorry none of the links provided actually mentioned anything useful !

nigel_bytes wrote:
Johnnytheboy wrote:
...which is pointless unless you can either ID the cyclists or apprehend them on the spot.


And Charge them with what ?


presumably they are breaking local byelaws ?... does that make this a civil offence rather than a criminal one ?
(obviour enforcement flaws aside)


as a more serious aside isn't this another wrong focus on absolute speed as a measure of safety ?
i recently spent a weekend cycling out from a hotel on the seafront in brighton, early in the morning i could happily scoot down the marked promenade cycle lane at 20mph... later in the day that would have been sketchy at best in places.... and on sunday afternoon i'd have been lucky to manage more than 5mph!
...wot no common sense ?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 20:54 
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IIRC there's a 10mph bike speed limit in place and there have been some complaints recently.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 07:18 
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Quote:
presumably they are breaking local byelaws ?... does that make this a civil offence rather than a criminal one ?
(obviour enforcement flaws aside)


Yes, that is a byelaw in Bournemouth. But it is not a civil offence as breaking a byelaw is a criminal offence The offender may be prosecuted in the Magistrates’ Court or given a fixed penalty notice.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 23:05 
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Sorry for no links ...

The by-Law is the summer ban between 2 points ...
The speed gun exercise (and they did stop them at the time - better than not - of course) was to try and make the faster cyclists aware fo their speed.
But as I have been pointing out this does not help to educate or train or show/guide how to ride better and so the disrespect is high.
Their sea front rangers have been trying to control cyclists when they are banned in July & August along the promenade and they run 'check points' !

They can have faster cyclists and the PCSO's have been handling the guns ... plus the Police do patrol from time to time.
They do like the idea of cyclists using the very wide and long promenade and try to enforce appropriately.
They have a few problems cyclists riding inappropriately and too fast (so they use the 10mph as a tick off to ride safer) (but there is no or else ... so it might fall flat...) and the one's that don't ride carefully enough when too many people are about.
But none of their actions aim to actually educate or improve the area's cyclists that do cause a problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 23:34 
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Are the cyclists expected to fit a cycle computer to measure their speed? And does the council offer a calibrations service?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 00:04 
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No that is not their intention either, they are really just wanting the cyclists to realise that they are going faster than the posted limit, and to make them think.
The leaflets handed out are to encourage a better behaviour but IMO they have already lost the respect of the people carrying out the exercise, and so education then is potentially pointless and a complete waste of time & money.

I have suggested that they should have the police on bikes and patrolling and guiding and educating etc. Back this up with local public films and posters...
I have pointed out that if they want to have better ban signs then they need to attend to this.
I think ensuring that cyclists ride so that they can stop in the distance that they can see to be clear in, is a perfect way to educate all and help them all, understand where they are going wrong.
Cameras are no proxy for road or promenade safety.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 08:25 
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[Social Worker Mode]

I'm very suspicious of people lurking behind beach huts with optical equipment. It's a beach area where unclothed children will be around. I've also seen them talking to children. I think they should be reported to the authorities as potential perverts.

[\Social Worker Mode]

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 15:50 
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They give out warnings about this nonsense on the radio every year, so it seems. I don't think the police have ever had anybody's respect for it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 18:22 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Are the cyclists expected to fit a cycle computer to measure their speed? And does the council offer a calibrations service?


That's a very good point. You can't do someone for a technical infringement if they don't have the legal obligation to monitor same themselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 01:37 
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They never had any intention of enforcing the speeding offense, just to stop and hand out 'safe riding' leaflets.
Now normally if I saw Police stop people for a driving (motorbike) offense I would be pleased, as they are dealing 'on the spot', and in person, but this is all face-about. IF they were simply flagging people down and 'having a word' advising on possible riding errors, and issuing out good safety tips, the whole emphasis is safety for all, and people are respected and generally understanding and accepting of this procedure.
But as I have said elsewhere, this is dis-respected, as it is the numeric excuse that creates the 'pointless tug' for questioning, (not least someone standing and aiming something directly at them which is quite scary), then they are 'tugged' and talked to about safety. The Police action has already been one of aggression, whether correct or not. Now the Policemans/womans actions have not been regarded as helpful, but given concern and open to ridicule by the 'tugged' member of the public.
This is not good, nor good for public police relationships. I am told that PSCO's and SeaFront Rangers are also stopping cyclists. ....

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