Safe Speed Forums

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Look .. it's simple.

Overtaking on solid double whites a at above 10 mph. Do Cumbrian cops mean they cannot judge this without a ruddy speed cam FFS? :bandhead:

As for taking the corner too fast? Know the road. Can suggest a warning.. rumble strips as a countdown approach.. .. errr .. better TRAINING at provisional licence stage. ..L test to cover such bends .. and which may or not be formally tested but some kind of log book should record some learning curve

By the way .. overtaking on solid double whites at above 10 mph is a different moving traffic offence and should be prosecuted accordingly Oh sorry forgot .. a speed cam solves everything NOT!

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And if the use of cameras facilitates such prosecution what is your problem

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I am wondering how the speed cam equipment will decide whether or not the Horse/bictycle is traveling over the 10 MPH limit?

Or will it just ping drivers on the "wrong" side of the road en mass (and leave them having to defend themaselves in expensive court cases)


I must say, this isnt going to make life pleasent for cyclists. Drivers will be trying to pass them "without" going over the lines! Thats going to be fun!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Taking corners too fast is obviously going to cause problems, but how fast is too fast? Who will set the limits? Will it be based on how fast my FWD grocery getter on worn tyres in the wet can take a corner, or a EVO X on new tyres in the dry?

You have to know you vehicle and use your brain which drivers are being trained not to do.

why not have a real life copper, resplendent with fast car and shiny shoes sitting there dishing the fines out instead of sending people a bill in the post. That is what gets peoples backs up. If it was THAT dangerous, then surely action should be taken there and then, not in due course a few days later.

Your copper can have a few words with the miscreant offering advice on their driving while checking they have all the correct insurance and sundry paperwork in place. As long as the white lines are there to stop people killing themselves and not to stop safe overtaking, I have not problem with fining people for crossing them.

Why are the people overtaking where there are double white lines? Is it because the lines are inappropriate in that location?
I don't know Cumbria, but from what I've seen speed cameras almost always appear where the speed limit is not appropriate, and almost never where it would be insane to exceed it.

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Andrew.

There is no requirement to have one and they are expensive assets to deploy in a way that would give satisfactory presence. The police powers canbe far better emoyed elsewhere.
I think that there is only one reason that this is suggested repeatedly and that is togive the chance of being let off with a talking to when it is known that it is too expensive to fulfil.
Why do you think that drivers detected in these operations are not checked fir other offences or PNC markers such as no insurance? You are naive I that belief.
It is most likely the police who are setting this operation up as the safety cameravans are operated by the police and police staff, all police.
This still looks like a winner all round.

so, what if I put false plates on my car, are your cameras still effective? If I have no tax/MOT/insurance, I'm hardly likely to rush to the post office to post the cheque and my licence for points when I have been caught crossing a solid white line am I?

If you stand a real live policeman on the side of the road to deal with these people, when he finds, say for example, an uninsured car, he then can seize it there and then. That's one more uninsured car off the road and the driver then has to make other arrangements to get home. Remind the class how that works when said uninsured driver gets a NIP in the post.

You cameras are relying on the likes of me being compliant in having our cars registered, we then get punished harshly, because we can get punished. The automated system breaks down when drivers aren't compliant with registering their vehicles.

With a real life policeman, you won't get the arguing that the wife was really driving, because he's got you there and then. Never mind the poor PR of automated fines. Obvious really.

Is what you are saying, that this particular law isn't important enough to enforce with a police officer? If so, why enforce it?

Funny enough I travelled a road the other day,that I used to travel a lot in the early eighties, I was amazed to find (apart from having stupid 40MPH limits everywhere) that it also had miles and miles of double white lines where none existed before. I would have had several chances to overtake the old lady in front doing 30 MPH, many years ago but found myself following her for about 2-3 miles before overtaking the other day, and it wasn't down to lack of power etc, there just wasn't a break in the white line.

Many of the white lines round by us obviously haven't been set by drivers. On some roads, the chance you get to overtake after the double white finished, before you run out of straight road, you would need a ferrari to overtake a tractor and yet where the double whites are, there is good vis for hundreds of yards.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

there will be some instances where a telling off has the same effect, but I'll wager that being pulled over and explained to why you have been stopped, what you did wrong and why you are going to get fined will have a far better effect on peoples driving (not to mention their opinion of the police) than sending them a bill in the post in a few days time.

I can see no reason whatsoever why it would.

Cameras are surprisingly expensive to install and maintain....the only difference is that those who operate that business have managed to weasel their way into being the only party who can 'cost recover', possibly resulting from the well-known gross exaggeration of the effectiveness of their efforts (RTTM, 'bias on selection' and all that).


In one case it is fair, immediate and done from a respected authority who will consider aggravating or mitigating circumstances.
In the other, a conflict of interest arises, the offender is notified when the incident isn't fresh in their mind, and isn't from a respected authority who will never consider aggravating or mitigating circumstances; in this case the offender may subsequently consider methods of evasion (which cannot apply with the other case).

It is usually those who are affiliated with, or (have) benefit from, the latter case who cannot see the obviousness of these differences 'whatsoever'.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The plan, as I understand it, is to use a mobile unit to gather evidence of offences that are in addition to speeding offences; doing more with the same reduces costs and addresses the common criticism that they only address speed.
The knowledge that this is being done as a deterrent Is an effective, lawful use of existing resourse.
It is a nonsense to criticise the use of existing assets by saying it coststoo much.
The detection of dangerous practice in this way cannot cause more danger.

... like drink driving? Wouldn’t it be better to detect these and stop it in its tracks, instead of missing them completely and letting them continue on?


I believe only you has brought up the issue of 'excessive' costs of current methods. I was merely highlighting how only one method (a comparatively ineffective one) is allowed to cost recover.


‘The detection of dangerous practice in this way’ displaces better methods of detection (trafpol); so in effect it can (and very likely does) yield comparatively more danger than use of these better methods.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

It measure speed only. The nature of the offence ist not a speed offence but a double white offence. You need a real cop to prosecute und explain the law here.

If the overtake ist at or below speed limit but within the double whites then no offence has been committed. I can source to pepipoo und vonhosen on PH by the way as well as IG's posts in the past where he quoted the ruddy law relating to this from the RTA 1988. Von's post on PH in 2007 verified IG's and IanH's posts of 2004 by the way und Stephen's posts of 2006 I am sorry if I have the photographic or elephant memory which last forever.

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What if the overtake ist within the double whites und within the speed limit.

Or what if driver give a little more room but outer rim of offside tyre straddle into the solid whites?

Or what if emergency which you are not aware of within one of those cars?


[/quote]

NO. Because they only know of this a fortnight or so later. A real police officer monitoring do much better job than some amateur in a van.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!