GreenShed wrote:
In Gear wrote:
Ummm - we are doing as we've always done since pre-Garvin. Used a van and cams/toys/gadgets in all the cars. Funny but it
works 
But all Gatso tins do not house cameras as we all know. The vans operate regularly at known spots. Our customers are observed for a bit more than a couple of yards past the cam...and some get more than a speeding ticket as a result ;wink:
We thus rid the roads of the worse drivers perhaps..
(Waits for SteveC to come back with a nananana! so there - with a couple of raspberries!)
GreenShed wrote:
So Durham and N.Yorks are doing; in your opinion; exactly what the 40 or so other partnerships were doing 8 or so years ago but are now somehow winners. How does that work?
It works because
1. We've had this system in place since pre-Garvin - and thus a lot longer than 8 years
You copy cats you!
2. Our customers (with the exception of the crew in the van who can offer SAC whereas the RPU on car patrol can offer DIS instead
) usually find out theire fate on the spot instead of 14 days later when they wil have forgotten the journey and the offence (and thus learn very little "positive" in terms of improvement from the experience as a result)
3. We have always been consistently one third lower in KSI - even in 2002 which seemed to reflect an increase everywhere - including the Kodak City of Blackpool that year.
But the debate should not be one of "who has the most KSI" - but why some areas or some roads seem to atteact the more dangerous out there and how we can educate these drivers or re-engineer the danger out of those roads. The Cat and Fiddle was once tamed by a regular Cheshire traffic cop to the Derbyshire border. Cheshire has reduced its carnage on its side of this road. Derbyshire still records a high incident rate .. and this just may be because they are known not to be patrolling it. The road is still classed as the most dangerous on the Derbyshire route to Buxton per reports of a fortnight or so ago.
I can't see how you have made this out. You can't criticise a system and say it doesn't work then say you invented it and it's working for you better than it works for anyone else.
My former guv - and all in this patch stand by his now legendary
acid appraisal of the speed camera when Co Durham got hammered in the press over its rise on KSI in 2002 v 2001 - always questioned the efficiency of a Gatso monitoring tw or three yards. We know folk manipulate them in any case.
PG was very straightforward when he explained why Co Durham had rejected the SCP policy. We do not have the same terrain here and you know as well as I do - since you were brought up in this county - that our headache is in Teesdale/Weardale - plus some serious criminals from up Newcastle way tearing down our stretch of the A1 (M) in "pool cars".
Speed cams would not stop this. Our RPU DO
We've always kitted up the fleet with the latest gadget and we've always listened to the complaints of the locals and targetted accordingly. I have always posted that anyone who thinks Co Durham and N Yorks are "soft on motoring offences because they do not use an SCP system are barking bonkers because the reality is that we are actually rather fierce enforcers - and our "acid lectures" are not taken lightly:
any discretion is taken with pure gratitude and a sobering warning.
I have never kept that a secret. I have kept our tolerance margin fairly
though.. for obvious reasons. I do not want anyone to take the p155 of our crews out there nor abuse our traditional approach.
Steve - I ain't that naive nor stupid.
I have always mentioned that our RPU have every known tool on board and use these to keep our patch relatively safe - but like the cameras - we are not omnipresent and we also keep in mind that human beings make mistakes - serious ones and these can occur anywhere .. and we endeavour to learn from the investigations into the incident. IF we conclude that the incident was pure speeding - then we may well audit the road for a while before making a recommendation - which may be reducing the speed limit or re-engineerng the road... or sending the van there more often
We would need evidence to suggest all speed there before making any decision re the cam van or any other recommendation to the highways agencies.
Quote:
There is nothing stopping you as a senior police officer :rolleyes: form justifying the provision and deployment of more RPO's; make you case for it, why not do it here.
No .. there isn't and I do.
But I've tried to keep such stuff quiet-ish in public.
Quote:
How many crew do you have on the camera van are they costing you a lot of your budget in relation to RPU?
We usually have a team of three in the van. They are RPU guys anyway. Thus they are still within RPU costs. I cannot say this now dedicated team and the operational costs of running the cam van adversely affect normal RPU expenditure. This team are the ones who can offer our version of the SAC. Our trafpol can and recommend an offender for a DIS course per their own judgement. The van will offer SAC to our normal cut off point .. which we think to be fair and generous in any case.
To all other safespeed posters and lurkers .. I am conversing with Greenshed (aka Steve - late of Cumbria SCP
who I do not disrepect nor should he have cause to disrespect me - as I stand by Co Durham's policy as laid down by past and present steering committee - and we do not have fixed cams nor an SCP
.) We have always used speed cam?ANPR tools. Each vehicle used by RPU are so equipped. We are not a soft touch .. never have been.. but we think we are fair in our enforcement. We allow a fair margin across the speed limit and allow some leeway for professional discretion to an agreed code of good practice to which we have trained our staff. We think this allows us to enforce a law fairly and squarely without causing adverse griping from the "customers" I do not think we encounter the same levels of distrust and resentment as a result of all this. This is another reason why I think Durham and N Yorks can take some "self pride" in - but we cannot ever zero our risk of any accident. \No one can and to claim a speed cam does so .. is a nonsense because it cannot ever make such claim anymore than in the days of the pony and trap..Folk are accident prone.. stupidity prone even.
All we can do is identify the error and try to educate.
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Much pleasanter. Honest mate - I'm not the enemy. But we need to chat to debate the pros and cons of the systems in place.
might be more appropriate in that case.
)
