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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 08:20 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -warn.html



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -warn.html

Telegraph wrote:
Police cannot be trusted with fines, magistrates warn
Police cannot be trusted to hand out summary justice and will act as “judge and jury” if given powers to issue more on-the-spot fines, magistrates have warned.

By Tom Whitehead, Home Affairs Editor
Published: 10:00PM BST 17 Aug 2009

Police cannot be trusted with fines. Photo: PA
In an extraordinary attack, the Magistrates’ Association said it is a “certainty” that officers will misuse powers because they cannot be “relied on” to handle them appropriately.

The comments have been made as part of the Magistrates’ Association response to the Government’s plans to allow police to issue £60 fixed penalties for careless driving.

Police have been accused of increasingly dealing with offences using on-the-spot fines as an easy way to hit the government’s crime targets.

Magistrates are worried that the number of offences now dealt with in this way is keeping some serious offenders out of the courts.

However, police leaders insisted that the use of the fines, which has risen sharply under Labour, helped to reduce paperwork and free up officers’ time.

It leaves two of the key bodies responsible for tackling crime and administering justice at loggerheads.

MPs expressed surprise that magistrates would have accused police of being untrustworthy.

Alun Michael, a Labour member of the Commons justice committee and former policing minister, said such “grandstanding” was not helpful and both parties needed to address the issue.

Paul Holmes, a Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, said: “It is a sorry state of affairs when the Government’s push for instant justice is driving a wedge between different parts of our criminal justice system.

“The police have been given wide-ranging powers without adequate debate. It is deeply concerning that even judges think they will abuse them.”

Chris Grayling, the shadow home secretary, added: “This is the reality of a criminal justice system after a decade of government interference in policing.”

The Government’s proposals would make careless driving a fixed penalty offence, meaning those guilty being handed an on-the-spot fine and given three points on their licence. Currently, those suspected of careless driving are prosecuted in the courts where they can face a fine of up to £5,000 and up to nine points on their licence.

Chris Hunt Cooke, chairman of the Magistrates’ Association road traffic committee warned against this. In his response, he said: “Regrettably, recent experience with out-of-court disposals shows that the police cannot be relied on to use them appropriately or as intended.

“Once they have been given these powers, the police will misuse them, that is a certainty, and careless driving will be generally treated as a minor offence, unless serious injury is involved.

“This is a proposal that places the convenience of the police above what is right in principle, may coerce innocent drivers into accepting a fixed penalty, and is certain generally to downgrade careless driving in terms of offence seriousness.”

Mr Hunt Cooke, a magistrate for 13 years, said the offence is a subjective matter, unlike speeding or driving with no insurance, and any judgement of how serious that is should be made in a courtroom.

He said police officers will be “prosecutor, judge and jury, deciding on guilt and then sentencing the offence” .

“Faced with the choice between the heavy burden of taking the matter to court and the simplicity of issuing a fixed penalty, it is certain that many police officers will opt for a fixed penalty, however bad the driving may be.”

The Association of Chief Police Officers refused to address the accusations that officers could not be trusted to administer fines appropriately.

However, Mick Giannasi, Gwent Chief Constable who is in charge of roads policing for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said: “By dealing with offences in this way, it can result in a reduction in the amount of time that police officers spend completing paperwork and attending court, while also reducing the burden on the courts and the taxpayer.”

Hundreds of thousands of fixed penalties are handed out by police every year, including almost 1.5 million for speeding offences alone.

Police have been given increasing powers to hand out fines since Labour took power in 1997, mainly through the introduction of the penalty notice for disorder in 2004.

The fines can be handed out for so-called “low-level” offending such as littering, criminal damage, being drunk and disorderly and shoplifting.

The number of such fines has increased more than three-fold from 63,639 in 2004 to 207,544 in 2007, the most recent figures available.

The Magistrates’ Association has already said fines are being used for “inappropriate offences”, including a warning that too many shoplifters are avoiding court by being handed them.

Earlier this month, the Commons Justice Committee described the growth in out-of-court penalties as a “fundamental change” to criminal justice.

Mr Michael said it would be “nonsense” to roll back time but both the magistrates and police “need to understand why there is an issue here”.

He added: “It is not helpful to have this sort of grandstanding, whether it is from the Magistrates’ Association or from Acpo.

“It is an issue but it is not a cataclysmic case for a major division between the magistrates and the police.”

The Department for Transport is due to report back on its proposals to make careless driving a fixed penalty offence later this year.

It has already been criticised by taxpayer groups and motoring campaigners who warned police will take the easy option of handing out fines.

They also warned minor accidents and many trivial motoring offences, such as eating, drinking or smoking at the wheel, could lead to fines.

Careless driving covers a wide range of behaviour from minor inattention to driving that is only just below the level of dangerous.

The Magistrates Association fears drivers who believe they are innocent will not risk challenging the fines in court while those guilty of serious offences just short of dangerous driving will escape harsher punishment.

A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: “Bad driving puts other drivers, cyclists and pedestrians at risk.

“Making careless driving a fixed penalty offence would help the police to enforce against bad drivers who admit fault with a minimum of bureaucracy, freeing up police resources.

“But all drivers would always have the option to contest their case in court and we would work with the police and the courts to develop guidance to ensure that cases are handled correctly.”



Let's put it this way.. police can already offer DIS if they beleive the careless driver will benefit right now. There are some as we already know willl abuse their authority or not be consistent - such as one plod who boast of giving FPN for 60 mph in a 30 mph in one breath und claim all speeder MOPS are dangerous idiots in hte next ... :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 03:11 
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DIS is a good system and generates income for the local economy, the Government get sweet FA and this is why they are bringing in fines so yhat they can cash in on the subject, no more no less.
We will be told issue the tickets what can we do possibly just go not guilty, then keep the police officers off the streets and clog the criminal justice system up trying to process all the offences.
Stephen


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 21:29 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... fines.html


Repeat and serious offenders are escaping court

Telgraph wrote:
Repeat and serious offenders are escaping court with on-the-spot fines
Repeat and serious offenders are escaping court because police just hand out a string of on-the-spot fines for easy convictions, magistrates have warned.

By Tom Whitehead, Home Affairs Editor
Published: 7:00AM BST 19 Aug 2009

In one case a thief was given 12 separate fixed penalties for shoplifting instead of being taken to court despite being a persistent criminal, John Thornhill, the chairman of the Magistrates’ Association disclosed.

In another, a suspect caught in possession of a firearm was given a fine, even though he was on bail from court for the same offence.

And a man who glassed a victim in a pub, leaving him with six stitches and a night in hospital, was also handed a fine and not taken to court.

The alarming trend emerged as rank and file police said the growth in out of court disposals is failing the public and “dumbing down” the criminal justice system.

The row over fixed penalties deepened after The Daily Telegraph disclosed magistrates do not believe the police can be trusted to hand out summary justice.

In an extraordinary attack, the Magistrates’ Association said it is a “certainty” that officers will misuse powers because they cannot be “relied on” to handle them appropriately.

Mr Thornhill said more than half of all criminal matters are dealt with by out of court punishments, such as fines, cautions and formal warnings, but half of all on the spot fines are not paid on time and end up in court anyway.

He said: “There is inconsistency of the use, there is inappropriate use of these and that is something we are concerned about.

“All these out of court disposals, there is no public scrutiny and the mantra the Government uses that justice must not only be done but seen to be done is not seen to be done

“We have been investigating the use of out of court disposals, on-the-spot-fines for the last 12 months, and the evidence we have suggests that on many occasions, where the matter is serious police go for the easy option of the on-the-spot fine, because it's done and dusted, dealt with there and then.

"What this is doing is turning the police into jury and sentencer.

"And many of the police actually don't want to do this, because they believe it's more important that an independent tribunal which is not fettered by financial considerations or targets makes that decision."

The president-elect of the Police Superintendents' Association, Chief Superintendent Derek Barnett, angrily accused the magistrates of impugning the integrity and professionalism



Stephen OF COURSE I see your point of view und I would not want you to think I not like police as opposite true :lol:

But we have to look at these stories all the same. :wink:

I admit DIS to be fine.. und I concede that professional plod run rings arounfd the scame too. But we still have to hit stories like these head on perhaps?

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 15:05 
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I am in general agreement with the MA on this, but I have some real concerns about the way they put their case. It is true that some police officers do issue repeated tickets when the rules say they shouldn't. It is also true that some police officers issue tickets for offences which, by the rules, are too serious to be dealt with in that way. Whether that is due to poor training, pressure from above or a deliberate decision to break the rules I have no way of knowing.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 21:50 
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Me and Wildy focussed on MEN. Bury Times.. Bolton News and Stockport thingy as these papers show up road life as it is -typically across the UK

We live in a rural area. Whilst our incidents happen . these are rural based and particular to this area :roll: The big birbs reflect urban problems.. hence the focus here... and let'g face it . this urbanly developped area across 1o borough councils reflect life on our roads as the reality across UK whole :popcorn:

Bolton New wrote:
Ex-police officer slams fines for careless driving
11:00am Monday 24th August 2009



AN ex-police officer has slammed plans for fixed penalty notices to be issued to careless drivers.

Adrian Shurmer, aged 66, has written a book called Mind How You Go, based on the theory that the driving mindset is more important than the physical skills.

He worked for the police for 28 years and later became a driving instructor for 10 years, before developing a company promoting driver awareness.

And he feels drivers accused of careless drivers should be taken to court.

The Association of Chief Police Officers, however, wants to bring in on-the-spot fines.

But Mr Shurmer said: “I have nothing against the police but this is hypocrisy.

“It would mean that the police are deciding if an offence has been committed, rather than going to court where the evidence is heard and the accused can have an option of pleading guilty or not guilty.

“Police driver training is now a shadow of its former self and officers are just as bad drivers as those they could be handing out the fines to.”

Mr Shurmer grew up in Bolton and now lives in Great Harwood, Lancashire.

Chief Constable Mick Giannasi, in charge of road policing for ACPO, said: “By dealing with offences in this way, it can result in a reduction in the amount of time that police officers spend completing paperwork and attending court, while also reducing the burden on the courts and the taxpayer.”



NOTE what the ex-cop SAYS :popcorn:

Link to prove :wink:


http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/456 ... s_driving/

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 21:57 
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PS . I have copy of MINd How You Go! Err ,,, it 's COAST based :lol:

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 17:23 
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Summary justice is an oxymoron.

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