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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 20:08 
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http://www.chorley-guardian.co.uk/chorl ... 5608472.jp

Chorley Guardian wrote:
Chorley police accused of 'sneaky' tactics


Police accused of sneaky tactics on Preston Road


Police are being accused of using 'sneaky' tactics to catch speeding motorists in Chorley.
An eagle-eyed passer-by snapped these photographs showing an officer partially behind a wall snaring drivers breaking a 30mph limit on Preston Road, on Bank Holiday Monday.

Police guidelines say cameras should be used in the open but this officer appears to be partially obscured by a wall and trees close to Chorley and South Ribble District Hospital.

His car, which was parked off the road, was obscured by bushes.

Earlier this year, the Lancashire Road Safety Partnership, which hands out most of the tickets for speeding in the county, was also accused of sneaky tactics when one of their mobile camera vans was spotted partially obscured on the opposite side of the busy road.

One resident, who asked not to be named, blasted police for using 'negative' tactics.

He said: "I've been done for speeding myself in the past and I was only going three miles over the limit.

"It's ridiculous. It's always the drivers they are after. It makes your blood boil when you can see them hiding behind trees and all sorts.

"They say it's to make the road safer but when you see this kind of thing, it makes you wonder, if it's not just about the money."



The car should have been visible .. or patrolling und using due professional judgement. This was a quiet bank holiday,. We know. We have pals who work there :popcorn:


Quote:
Cyclist Chris Beards disagreed saying people shouldn't be speeding in the first place and commended officers for cracking down on unruly motorists.

He said: "It doesn't matter where they are if you are not speeding - it's as simple as that.

"As a cyclist I have a vested interest in people driving properly, so I think it is great they are about because it makes people think twice about how they act on the roads. If they handed out more fines there might be less people speeding."



I hope this person ist as noble when copped for pavement cycing . running a red light or pedalling too fast in Bournemouth or in Richmond Park :popcorn:

Quote:
On Monday, at least one Bank Holiday motorist was stopped at around 11.30am.

Earlier this year, a Guardian investigation found that speed cameras in Chorley and Leyland have netted up to £1.8m in two years.

In Chorley, there are 18 fixed speed cameras and four mobile speed camera sites operated by the Lancashire Road Safety Partnership.

However, police officers can stop anywhere to carry out hand-held radar detection.

PC Coburn from Chorley Police who was caring out the speed enforcement said: "The A6 Preston Road is a problem road in relation to speeding and as a result of concerns raised by residents from PACT meetings enforcement is undertaken with an aim to reduce road casualties and deaths.

"As the photographs show I was carrying out speed enforcement in high visibility clothing and headgear.

"These photos are taken from an angle and not from an angle from oncoming traffic. The pictures show me with my right foot leaning on the tarmac at the base of the wall. I was not behind the wall and I had a full view of oncoming traffic, as a result they would have had full view of me.

"In fact the majority of motorists saw me at a very early stage and slowed down."



Either not speeding anyway :popcorn: as most do in this area per obervation as they all know it a scam zone :popcorn:

Or worse scenario . :roll:

They then accelerated away hereafter .. . so plod achieved what exactly then :popcorn: By the way .. pogo list this on database as hot spot.. Locals .. er know. Fools.


Better to follow und judge properly then. :popcorn:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 21:03 
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If they are stopped at the time they are found to be over I have no problem with this. :shock: Provided they also look for other contraventions and stop as well.

However I am fairly certain this will be just a speed check and nothing else. :cry: Also there will probably be no officer discression (sp?) as to the method of punishment. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 09:42 
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Why is it sneaky? I's the speed limit concealed?

Police guidance says wear Hi-Viz clothing, why? The reason is for their protection, it is not primarily to give the motorist a sporting chance to slow down and is not required for that purpose.

Police guidance also says that 'covert' enforcement can be carried out, not that this is covert of course. Covert means you wouldn't see the officer or the enforcement equipment.

Good practice says that the best deterrent effect of speed enforcement activity is for a mix of covert and overt enforcement, so there you go Police guidance is use covert and overt. Why then do the news media and interest groups choose to selectively quote police guidance?

http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Uploa ... %20004.jpg

Image

It appears to me that this officer is clearly visible, is safe and poses no threat to road safety.

Unless the speed limit is deliberately concealed to the motorist in this location; you would have to cover up all of the lamp-posts, :lol: to do that, then the claim that it is sneaky is rubbish.

Let's stop media and intrest groups making selective quotations of police guidance, guidance they don't fully understand or have fully read, it has gone on too long.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:01 
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That would only work if certain members of the "speed kills" lobby, didn't quote RIDICULOUS stats that they can't and won't back up!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:06 
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I think the point here is the objective of this enforcement. Is the object to slow down motorists as the area is a very hazardous one and it is believed that slowing down traffic would make things safer?

If so, then making the enforcement as visible as possible would result in this being achieved. If it really is dangerous then hiding will not reduce the danger as nobody will slow down.

Of course, the Bank Holiday was the 31st of the month. Nothing to do with monthly figures, I suppose?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:18 
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malcolmw wrote:
I think the point here is the objective of this enforcement. Is the object to slow down motorists as the area is a very hazardous one and it is believed that slowing down traffic would make things safer?

If so, then making the enforcement as visible as possible would result in this being achieved. If it really is dangerous then hiding will not reduce the danger as nobody will slow down.

Of course, the Bank Holiday was the 31st of the month. Nothing to do with monthly figures, I suppose?

Well the tactic has reslted in massive publicity and now the locals are well aware that there may be some form of speed enforcement on that road. Most right-minded people will now be well aware of teh possibility of coming to the notice of the police if they don't observe the maximum speed in that area.
Enforcement can be done in a visible, partly visible and covert way, the mixture is best. It wouls appear in the circumstances that this was the best choice in this situation.
There is a possibility of the police enforcing at any location and in any form of visibility they so choose, if that belief is widely held then the deterrent effect is the widest possible. Tell people where, when and how visible enforcement is and they will do what is being enforced in those places elsewhere. Starangely enough it also leads to people thinking they can break the law and not be prosecuted for doing so if some guidance isn't being followed. So wheres the good in that?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:51 
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We pass one in Manchester. He was parked up visibly ,. He had his truc on a tripod .. :popcorn: He was holding his .. not steadying on anything . thus prone to hand shake error.

Und the car was in foliage. By the way ,,. that road run from 40 mph to 30 mph to 40 mph again if I am recalling correctly last time I drive it. ( think I used on a visit to Southport when I came off M61 :scratchchin: just before kittens were born... 6 month ago now.. I cannot believe how time fly here. :shock: )

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:57 
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I think the accusations of being sneaky are misplaced - and are largely as a result of the Lancs Camera Partnerships behaviours.

This illustrates the damage that the partnerships are doing to police/public relationship, and the manner in which the media portray incidents simply to sell their product, and give the advertisers exposure. :(

However, the public often rely on that same media to expose the behaviours of authorities who abuse their positions, so it's an uneasy relationship the public have!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 16:59 
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Just a few words on this subject. It was the head of roads policing at the time that drew up the "ACPO code of Conduct for the operation of speed detection equipment" and runs to 104 pages in total. It is very informative with many answers to questions raised by the motorist. However. It is not worth the paper its written on. There is also the DfT information on this subject. Again a waste of taxpayers money. They are classified as "guide lines" and quoted as such,but, whats the point of guidelines if they are not used. They have speed limits which are a guide line, one can travel below them so why should!nt they work to those in the handbook on speed detection. Another point in question is that in the ACPO guide lines it states that mobile cameras "should not be used in automatic mode" but I will bet anyone that they are never off that mode. Cameras are in effect to support an officer in his claim that one was speeding but how can an officer claim to know when every vehicle is speeding when he operates the camera?. The motorist is far to easy a target for revenue generation by the minions who operate the system for Government and keeps those who would otherwise be unemployed off the unemployment figures.OLLIE


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 17:16 
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I have just been in conflict with the Lancashire Police (Scamera idiots) who issued me with a NIP as they had my previous vehicle (sold previously 18 months) on a camera breaking a speed limit. I had to provide them with the name of the driver although I had informed the DVLA of the disposal at the time. I informed them that I had P/X the vehicle with a dealer and fired some bullets into them and the C/Constable and made an official complaint as to how they had approached the matter. They phoned me and tried to make me see their point of view but had no success. After another letter I received another call from them and they said they could!nt trace who had spoken to me previously, (doggy now as I thought all phone calls were recorded? Did I trust them!!!) Anyway. In the end they sent me a letter together with an application to contact the IPCC with my complaint. Very good of them, except that they knew that there was a 28 cut off for such complaints and that had by now passed so it was recorded as a command and control complaint. After all this I had a letter of apology, but now, they quoted my present vehicle registration as the vehicle involved with the speeding offence. All this complaint was delt with by civvies who seemed to be on another planet and they have been the worst force that I have ever had dealings with, a right load of idiots. Sorry for you lot in Lancashire.


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