Safe Speed Forums

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... _seatbelts




Speed cams do not cop these. I hear that Lancs are targetting Morecambe und surrounds this month though for this offence.

Should it carry penalty points.. ? What if you have an adult passenger who refuse to belt up? That can happen.. .. so would you double the fine for the passenger who refuse to obey the "captain" of the car behind the steering wheel.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
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Je ne regrette rien!

There are fleets of mobile speed cameras that "cop these." So you are once more talking rot.

The passenger over the age of 14 is responsible for wearing of seat belts the driver is not. Does that mean the passenger would be fined and not the driver?

If it was an endorseable offence would the adult passenger holding a licence receive an endorsement?

Actually it is you who is talking rot.
It is true that there are some mobile cams which do detect an unbelted driver, but I don't see how they are capable of detecting unbelted rear passengers i.e. the children referred to in the linked article, so Wildy is in fact entirely correct.

As you may imagine, I've seen a lot of video footage and photos from mobile speed cams. Few of the videos I've seen have enough quality to determine if a driver is belted (less alone a child in tha back seats); enforcement during dark hours is a little more problematic.

Of course, fixed cams cannot detect unbelted drivers/passengers at all, unless the driver commits a speeding infringement.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

They are used in exactly the way you say they are not.

What a great comeback, supported with such a logical and convincing explanation. You've won us over!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

You have seen a few videos and are now feel justified and able to comment on all mobile operations; the retort is fully justified as you have no experience of the systems in operation doing exactly as I have said. Winning you over is not the only objective, one objective is of course to illustrate you have no idea what you and your chums are commenting on and that is quite obvious.

That's an interesting objective: not to enlighten, but to discredit. I think the reader can now be less forgiving of you and your motives.

What experience have you had with these systems? Could this experience be related to your underhand motives?

How good do you think speed cams are at detecting unbelted children in rear seats? (including speed cams which are fixed, and enforcement during darkness).

You see with belted drivers, you can see the belt in the air behind the seat as a silhouette against background light; that doesn't apply with rear seats because there is no gap behind the seat to the belt mount. The latter is much more difficult to see (as are the smaller kids), especially when you're trying to quickly pan the camera as the vehicle passes (unless the camera is operating with a shed load of cosine error). This is of course much easier to see when driving along side them.
On top of that is the reflection from the surface of the window, making it difficult to see what is happening in the dark environment inside the car. Sure you can set up a polarising filter to view the driver through the front windscreen, but then it is at exactly the wrong angle to filter the light from side windows.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Solution: Take kids on the motorbike. Problem solved.

No, speed cameras can't solve this. The mobile speed cameras from what I understand are a laser speed meter bolted on to a video camera. So yes, this video camera can be used to spy into our vehicles. That in its self is of course wrong.

I'm sure something arriving in the post in 14 days saying "you owe us £££" will solve the problem. Yeah. It's so obviously worked well with other technical offences...

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Andrew.

I think you might be on the wrong forum for that, mate! It'll take a bit more than just your say-so as a self-appointed "knower-of-all-knowledge" to convince anyone on here!

Still, glad to hear your scamera vans can do something useful as well as just dish out £60 invoices! They sound just like the ones my local SCP use - they can do all all sorts, they can! Even catch people at night, we're told! Mind you, I haven't actually ever heard of anyone getting done round here for aything other than exceeding the speed limit in broad daylight, but I expect the flood gates will open anytime soon!

From 2004 when you first attack me on PH for my correct und reasoned opinions - when both me und Ted remarked that the vans were just pinging every single car on the offchance that it might be a teeny blip over - you kept saying that the cam op only pinged to veryify the speed if , in his opinion, the car was "speeding". Are you now confirming that our observation ist always correct und you have always pinged all cars regardless? You denied this to be the case in the past. (I can still link you back to those threads if you need to be reminded of your past rantings in all names from your own to all invented "sock puppets" as I understand the term to be .. or have I got the English wrong again.. (I think of "pearl necklaces und pillocks of society" gaffes of the past und go into cold sweats .)

As Steve point out .. these cannot detect if the child ist in baby seat or on booster seat .. nor even if the child ist tall und thus too big for these?


Also some folk may have belt over shoulder but not "clipped". This may not be as obvious on a photo as to naked eye of real eagle eyed :cop:


The mobile cameras cannot be detecting the speed as well as panning as this would perhaps not record the speed accurately .. slippage come to mind which already proven on various car progs/documentaries on speed cam "illogic" of the past

It cannot detect the rear child or rear adult passenger .. especially the one in the middle rear seat. Und what would be the point of notifying these folk TWO WEEK later when they need the IMMEDIATE lecture on this matter?

My point in raising this matter was to alert all that there ist going to be a forth coming blitz in "back to school month" und that police officer do this job better than a camera. Und why we need more police doing the rounds und not a mobile camera .. which ist actually static at a certain point in the road....on a tripod usually ... und thus not able to see what a policeman would see und be able to back from his in-car trucs

You really cannot beat a good old fashioned cop who note more.

The other point in this piece was the call to make the offence endorseable und to discuss how it may be or may not be possible.




Well that ist exactly my point if this were to be made endorseable? Und why I think it cannot be.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

They are speed cameras FFS, they do perform more than that but that is what they are.
I don't see any problem with making this endoresable for driver or passenger offences other than if they did you and your chuns would probably come up with a reason why it should not have been.

Oddly enough, so far in this thread it has been a case of you and your chuns (sic) yet again misrepresenting the safety benefit of speed cameras.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Oh dear, reduced to spellink mistooks, what fun.

Just like the SCPs, you continue to focus on what you can measure instead of what is important (the spelling instead of the misrepresentation of capability)

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Why don't you do something with your campaign then if you are so sure you have a case?
7 years campaigning, acheivement............[edited out '...'s' ].
We still await it.

So you have to form "opinion the driver was speeding" before firing to verify . (which ist what you said as Steve Callaghan in the Cumbria forum und on the PH board in 2004. :sc\ratchchin: Dann again as Highway 66..milesimpson .. pitmans boots.. black boot. chumpionmon.. the JJJ sing und dancing trouple und chunky chops und Puff the magic Mushroom - "Take easy . slow down boy . does your mama know .. that's no way to go!"

So :roll; you admit that it only on the offchance they pick up on the unbelted up driver ...hardly successful then. I will do FOI sometime to find out the stats of your "success" on this. Oh.. forgot .. done that already . got the reply! . Your "chins und chums" wrote back saying "unable to give any statistics of information on this" ... You can only measure und detect a driver above your trig threshold. You are not measuring the driving style nor any other compliance which create more serious hazard und danger. We note that there ist no significant drop in incoming wounded to hospitals. We do know und now have some proof as to how the real figures are being skewed .. und this has to do with the 30 day rule .. Also if patient does manage to contract und succumb to a lurgy or we switch off the machine.. then the cause of death can become "confused" as death certificate does not state death as a result of injury sustained at the time .. but from other complication which may still have arisen because of the original injury. But what the heck.. MRSA ist a nice one to clobber poor Ted over..as you did in your other guise on PH


i still say a real policeman can run rings around a Speed cam operator. (Anti bib.. MOI? Unmoeglich! (I want decent cops though.. well trained but modest professionals who are realistic about their skills. I do not want the types who inhabit PH unrealistically fluffy site 24/7 und short change us all )





If a person aged 14 or older refuse to wear their seatbelt - then that ist not the driver's responsibility. BUT at age 14-17 - they may not hold a licence, Other passengers may not hold licence either .. so It would be a bit pointless to endorse their "non licence" und you cannot endorse the driver's licence as he has no legal authority to force these to belt up. Child under age 14 would be different matter. I suppose you could make fine higher for the passenger of the post 14 ages committing the offence? Say twice the driver's fine if he gets penalty pointed for non-belting himself und the under 14s?

Hey-ho! (I pick up this word now in vogue from the papers

Und

I am suggesting an idea which may be insane:boxedin: to some .. but not so silly to others .. I am not stating my own actual opinion on this one. just to gauge what folk out there think of such ideas? Und to come up with their takes as to how we might get folk to use belts as second nature it become to folk like this particular family of wildish felines (we are playful "roll over tickle our tum cute loveable types" really )

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

- I believe public perception is now turning (YouGov/Admiral: ":: Only 27% think speed cameras improve road safety", unless you believe that level of support was always that low?).
- Also, the number of prosecutions from speed cameras has recently significantly reduced - result!
- Funding for the SCPs is no longer ringfenced for them, enabling a 'budgetary squeeze' - can they see the 'Sword of Damocles' over their heads?
- Swindon has done something extreme, and other councils may yet follow!

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

10 years of SCP und we still have OTT speeding.. non wearing of seatbelts.. kids with zero idea of Green Cross Code und a rather derisory drip of KSI reductions which should be zero given the number of cams und so was!"

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!