Safe Speed Forums

In case anyone saw it: yes someone had re-registered and (inevitably) was agreeing with themselves!

edit:
One more thing. Much has been said about England and Wales, but what the other parts of GB: Scotland or Ireland?

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Sorry to come into this one rather late .... Been South and had to attend to other issues ...

But in answer to much of this thread :

It is only guidelines that ACPO notifies linked in bodies - of 10mph +2% to +6mph, each area can make up their own area boundaries. The money raised from SAC goes back directly via organising SAC 'groups/bodies' to the Partnerships.


Well they are over the 'tolerance' so can be charged .... those are likely to proceed to Court if fines and points are not accepted.
I totally understand you concerns over why a course is apparently good for some but apparently not others. Neigh similar to their own angle on one specific numeric value is safe and one is not and worthy of a disproportionate punishment.
Their misguided belief that disproportionate punishment, might somehow improve one's driving or encourage good, or better driving behaviours is wrong. We might have hoped unbiased research would be enough to show them but apparently not.
There is an '85 percentile' that shows that those that are traveling at the speed that 85% of drivers are traveling a,t are shown to be the safest and those least likely to ever have an accident.
Those excessively slower and faster are those shown in the statistics to be at greater risk of accident.
To 'target' the higher speed road users is potentially directly targeting those that are the safest road users. The camera policy is a flawed policy.
The Cam Partnerships take the money directly back from SAC's payments, but the fine charges (some) have to be returned back through the Treasury.

There is the implication that only good drivers only ever go just a few mph over the posted limit but reality shows us a different scenario. e.g. 83% of drivers are 'speeding' and yet most drivers do not have accidents - so why not?

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

The way I see many people drive? Pure luck.

Maybe you are just a bad judge of other people's driving then?

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

System yes - hence why we *had* the safest roads by encouraging overall good driving behaviours (in a host of ways).

It is a lot more than may or may not avoid it - there is an issue of when observations and anticipation is considered before and upon approach to any hazard and potential hazard, and when avoiding action is taken. Then if the best and most appropriate action has been taken and if not how to improve road users to raise their skills, knowledge and abilities.
By helping guide road users to understand hazards no one should be approaching at a too high speed, in the first place, by not first failing to understand the risk that they are approaching. That failure to grasp and understand their environment makes them a dangerous driver i.e. too fast for conditions.
The higher speeds that you mention are not causing the danger but the road users inability to recognise the hazard / potential hazard. No one ever wishes to misunderstand a road situation and deliberately enter that situation at a too high speed. Helping people to observe better and understand what they are seeing and ensuring road users are paying attention is crucial to road safety.


re: the tat a tat with SAC tutor, (- according to your report that is), it is a sad reflection (but no surprise) I am sorry to say of the neigh brain washing going on about 'speed'. The confusion of speed and 'speeding' is rife, as is the misrepresentation of 'speed' as the only important factor when 'entering a situation too fast for conditions'.
The very weak arguments implied to you, show how weak their defense is of this misguided policy is.
To say that road users are a 'lost cause' and 'beyond educating' is both ignorant and a sad reality on the official take on road safety. It also implies on one hand that resources are to blame, but on the other, that it is motivation that will be impossible to achieve any meaningful result or any ability to empower achievement.
This also shows that by relying on the Camera Partnerships Authorities (perhaps) no longer have policies that will encompass all road users and 'treat' many varied road user bad behaviours. We have lost many of the expert advice and skills that helped government make policies, we need to get back to this. This helped give us the best roads and we need to recreate this.
Targets require by their nature, a documented and registered result, when trafpol (traffic police) stop and talk / lecture the public this does not fit with a 'target' as it shows no 'immediate result' so cannot be measured, and by running enforcement in this way makes the target the goals not the original core issue the goal, so the reasons for achievement are not the original intentions but the 'result' achievements. (All proved I hasten to add by academic and professional Dr's).

Do those that attend the courses just get through the course as quickly as possible. Do people question what they are taught ? Are some things of use - and does the teaching make drivers better or 'just' go over the posted limit less ? (their 'desired effect') Are course attendees better persuaded by their 'Speed Kills' messages, and go out and 'preach' ?
Some if not many seem to want to complete the course and leave. The length of the courses seem to vary, it seems that it is now reduced down to a 2.5hr 'deal'. Is anything learned or does it reinforce the disrespect and ongoing belief that the over and disproportionate enforcement of a numeric value is too extreme?

As soon as drivers are told to drive to a specific speed than how to best managing risk on the road, we alter the way people think about road safety, and this has many and far reaching effects, and consequences.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Not at all the statistics would be screaming massive figures on accidents ... it's not there.
Inattention and frustration are the two main causes of accidents not a host of arbitrary factors.
It was a rhetorical question.

Oh Flash

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Never lied you are wrong as I never said Police, but since your link to ACPO in fact shows Police do get an administration charge back in fact this if I had said it would not in fact have been wrong anyway !
You might well be aware of the ACPO guidelines as are many.
So what happens when enforcement of 20mph ? I see SAC is already in the offering for the 10%+2 area offending.


Really hummm ? The Council in your eyes then is the same as the Police ?

The Tories have stated in the Daily Telegraph recently that they will concentrate spending money on road safety in other measures than cameras per se, some traffic light 'speed to red systems' and VAS etc ... A potentially good step, in the right direction.


In many ways I can respect an education route, but when it is based upon this political 'public approval' where is the genuine road safety ?
It is politics and not for Road Safety. Either it is better or it is not. Generally speaking we have 'highly trained officers' because that is what (we all hope) makes them safer, better drivers (and riders) when they are in 'hot pursuit'.
Those with better education in all walks of life generally 'do better'. In driving and riding good (appropriate) knowledge gained enables road users to make better risk management decisions, using better skills gained and (hopefully) have better attitude and anticipate better, thus making better drivers and riders.
This gamble of mix of cameras, FPN's (14 days later) courses for a few, tickets for many, targets for Police is no way to run road safety. They are gambling with lives as the message is focused on one area and the money mostly concentrated on that same area, namely 'speed', and so not put to proper and intelligent road safety issues.

The report goes on to say :


and :
and Point 5 states :
As a note to Flash regarding Confidentiality during your discussions during the Course :

Their longer term SAC approval I see is :
Scheme Evaluation
A generic pre-course attitude and perception questionnaire will be required of each client together with follow-up questionnaire 6 to 12 month’s later (timings to be confirmed). [/quote]

Also regarding Course Information and DVLA notification responsibility :


Some links around the web to apparent reports of lower than 10% +2 SAC offered situations :

Independent link to 34 in 30 SAC offered ...
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money ... ess-Course

and another - although varied responses inc done for 33 in 30 in Warwickshire :
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071224130454AAlHqEq
34mph in a 30mph ... :[url=
http://www.menshealth.co.uk/chatroom/pr ... heme=print]
http://www.menshealth.co.uk/chatroom/pr ... heme=print[/url]

32 in a 30mph ... :[url=
http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1042798]
http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1042798[/url]

33mph and report of 31mph in 30mph :[url=http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=627734]
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/show ... p?t=627734[/url]

ref : for Speed Camers Enforcement chart :
http://www.speedcamerasinfo.co.uk/2.html - about half way down or at the ACPO Report ....

and another - although varied responses inc done for 33 in 30 in Warwickshire :
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071224130454AAlHqEq

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.