Safe Speed Forums

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20091014/tuk ... dbed5.html

Any Thoughts ?

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Totally irresponsible, and deserves to be punished.

However, why do they clutch at the possibility that her driving was dangerous because she might have lost control in the puddle? After all, they only have the evidence of the film - no check on her tyres at the time, etc.

It only serves to detract from the stupidity of her action in deliberately soaking the children... the real issue here!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

TBH, I was more concerned with the potential for loss of control (and there was a deep puddle just before the bus stop).
My very rough estimate puts the speed at 42mph, approaching the speed needed for aquaplaning of a light car and loss of control I reckon.

Even if not: either way, that deserves a good slapping.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

My take is that some one with that cavalier attitude to other road users shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel of a car at all. A vital part of road safety is mutual respect between road users. With that drivers mind-set it is only a small step from getting a kick out of drenching kids to getting a bigger kick out of killing them.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Kids stand next to large puddle. Kids get wet. In my day if there was a large puddle in the road you didn't stand next to it! They would have had a watering from the bus when that turned up judging by the size of the water. Comedy shows have people getting soaked by puddles. This honestly looks like many vids that have been on you've been framed. Why is everyone getting upset?? Kids throw water bombs at adults, snowballs, eggs and all manner of things at strangers' houses and do mean things to them all the time. As adults we just ignore it or give them a harmless lesson?? I don't see it as the lynch mob flavour of the month that some seem to be seeing it as.

The question of whether there was a likelihood of loss of control of the vehicle is another issue entirely and is far more serious.

I'm sure we've all shot people with water pistols before....is that just a small step away from shooting people dead with a real gun?.....scary stuff!!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

A water pistol doesn't have the potential to be used as a lethal weapon. A motor car does.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

DCB,

Like weepej, you've gone and assumed a rather scary thought process

People thinking it funny to splash bystanders being 'a small step from wilfully letting lives be taken' is quite far fetched, something recent along the lines of a pasta deity springs to my mind.

I've been sprayed with a water pistol from a passing vehicle (passenger side) when cycling on my bike, does that mean that person is likely to be one small step away from being thrilled enough to fill me with lead? Please!

Don't get me wrong, the driver in the video clip really should be punished, but it is far more likely that they'll end up killing someone from unexpected aquaplaning than going out to do so with any direct intent.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

It's a remarkably inefficient lethal weapon, though. If you really intended to kill or seriously injure someone, trying to drive into them would be well down the list.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Thought requires two brain cells, double the number that that driver appears to have.

I admit it is a rather OTT extrapolation. But it doesn't detract from my point that some one with that attitude to other road users should not be allowed to drive a car. As you admit there was a real danger that he could have lost control - either aquaplaning or having the wheels twisted by the drag. A driver who thinks that it is a big joke to take those risks is not a fit person to be allowed on the road. He may not be planning to wilfully take life but he is prepared to put lives at risk for what he considers fun.

On a lighter note - do you remember that advert from a few years ago when driver attempting to splash a bus queue in just this manner found himself disappearing down a six foot deep hole

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I agree (and I never implied otherwise). A temporary driving ban should be considered as well as a fine for compensation of the damage the driver had probably caused (that money going into the 'pot' if it can't go to the victims).


I admitted no such thing (admit: almost always implies concession or confession: "I admit it is a rather OTT extrapolation."). Basingwerk used this as a method to misrepresent and irritate.


You made an assumption the driver was knowingly taking such a risk. It's not impossible the driver may not have been aware of the risk of aquaplaning - there is a difference between 'knowing but not realising at that time' and 'realising but ignoring', even if the outcomes are the same.


Nope, I don't watch TV

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

There is the other possible angle here ,that perhaps the kids parents could sue the Highways dept for the fact that a puddle was allowed to form .Might make them wake up to the fact that in some places water drainage and hollows get overlooked in the road repair procedure .If it was deep enough to cause concern for possible aquaplaning - then why was it not on the hit list for repair, or has road safety become one of reduce speed to walking pace .That's the whimsical side of it .
On the more serious side - the fact that the audio is reported as them seeing a puddle and kids -hence it wasn't just careless -it was premeditated - the water could have been hiding a deep pothole -the resulting repair bill would have been poetic justice ,but the hole could have caused a nasty if severe damage was done to the suspension.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Completely disagree with that. If I wanted to murder someone the motor car would be my weapon of choice. If only because the punishment for killing with a motor car is substantially less than for using any other weapon.

A cyclist was killed on our local bypass last week by a motorist. The CPS have concluded that it was the cyclist's own fault for being out at night and have declined to prosecute. I am not saying that the driver intended to kill him but if she did she has committed the perfect murder.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

"I was more concerned with the potential for loss of control (and there was a deep puddle just before the bus stop).
My very rough estimate puts the speed at 42mph, approaching the speed needed for aquaplaning of a light car and loss of control I reckon."

That appears to be the admission I mentioned




If he is not aware of the risk of aquaplaning in those circumstances he should not be licensed to drive

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

The penalty for DELIBERATELY killing someone using a motor vehicle is exactly the same as for killing someone with a knife/gun (etc).
That penalty is life imprisonment.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I assume early morning ?
The seriousness of the prior thought process and the actual follow through makes this socially unacceptable, in the same way that children who carry out acts against others does too.
A child that may not (perhaps) realise the full consequences of their ridiculous, dangerous or/and stupid actions is one thing, but for an adult to carry out making someone wet, (I assume before school?), when we might expect better behaviour / respect shows a bad attitude.

I am all for kids learning and being aware that puddles by the roadside, and traffic, can mean they may get wet, but this does seem mean as the speed has created a huge water wave they must have got soaked!
The approaching speed of the car is too quick for the conditions, (Steve reckon 42 looks right too), I am surprised they have not picked up on this, - the driver knew that kids (people) were about, they really needed to slow right down to 20ish as max! It looked like the water had collected on both sides of the road, as the white oncoming van has to go through a large puddle too, and with the side junction, there is no allowance or thought for water crossing that might be an issue- looks like the driver has not allowed for the possible problems.

I would like to see them told to go on a skid pan course, and being made much more aware of possible hidden problems with puddles and maybe a dose of understanding respect too.
From the road safety aspect, the water may have formed quickly, some areas have received flash floods recently.
Placing a bus stop so near a junction & bottom of a hill (where water will collect), is questionable - why not back up the hill or further along ? (Even cutting into the pavement a little to help with the bus width, when it stops would help to keep traffic flowing).

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Yes it is. But it is very difficult to prove intent when the weapon is a motor car. In the incident I referred to the driver claimed that she did not see the cyclist and that was accepted as a defence, as it usually is. It would not be possible to use that defence if the weapon was a knife or a hand gun.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I know you know better than that, but for now let’s go with your interpretation.

If you agree to these below, say so properly with “I admit ...”.

- Do you admit there is a risk of aquaplaning in this case?
- Do you admit not all drivers are complete loons and at least some quite considerate?

Maybe then you’ll see what others think of you.


Which is partly why I'm happy for a temporary ban to be considered (however it is realised).

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I suspect some critical information has been left out there.
If you had said for example: "The CPS have concluded that it was the cyclist's own fault for being out at night without lights" it would have gone a long way towards being believable.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

This cycling incident sounds curious - have you any links from the press or Courts perhaps ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.