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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 08:18 
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Now the idea has reared its head again as part of a number of measures to help the UK meet ambitious climate change targets.

Irish referendum comes to mind.

The "legally binding targets" for Carbon emission reductions now enshrined in UK law were mentioned on the radio this morning as being very unlikely to be met. My immediate thought was just what is the legally enforced penalty for missing the target? Imprison the Prime Minister? Treasury pays itself a big fine?

Completelt daft.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:00 
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Prof. Ian Plimer, 2009 wrote:
The amount of energy humans generate annually is equivalent to that received by Earth from the Sun every hour.

From http://www.iceagenow.com/Open_Letter_to_Gordon_Brown.htm

Kinda puts things into perspective!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:05 
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Actually, I hope the world IS warming since if it isn't we are likely to be in REAL trouble!

Here's why!

12,000 years ago, where I am sitting would have been arctic tundra! From a high point I might even have been able to see the edge of the polar ice sheet (Unlikely, but just possible)

We are often told that we are currently in an "Interglacial" period. However, This isn't quite true. Technically we are still coming out of the ice age. (During a "True" interglacial the Arctic is (will be) largely ice free and forests will cover Greenland with only the odd glacier on the really high ground, much like Scandinavia today)

This means that, at present , global climate is inherently unstable, it could either get warmer to a true interglacial, or it could get colder and revert to full "Ice Age" conditions. Geological records show that the transitions from ice age to interglacial and (vice versa) are not always smooth but usually oscillate a bit before the climate settles down.

The one thing that we can be absolutely certain of however is that the climate will not remain static, like it is now, no matter how badly we might want it to do (and no matter how much of our money the politicians might spend trying to control the weather!)

If you think that the climate warming a couple of degrees over the next couple of centuries might be hard it is NOTHING compared to what the global consequences of reverting to an ice age would be like!

Perhaps if we really DO believe that fossil fuel burning is warming the climate then the "Precautionarry" thing to do is to buren EVEN MORE so as to (attempt to :wink: ) ensure that an ice age reversion wont happen!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 17:42 
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If you object to these ads, please sign this petition:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/climate-ad/

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 13:49 
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To add to an earlier post:
Steve wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
The whole point is that we don't know so the precautionary principle must be applied.

And there was me thinking "the science is settled" :roll:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8313672.stm

Gordon Brown wrote:
... let us be in no doubt: once the damage from unchecked emissions growth is done,

So do we know or don't we know?




Steve wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
If they are wrong reducing CO2 won't make things any worse.

Of course it will. Manufacturing will take a major hit, as will the impact on private transport - and what of the populous of the poorer countries who are struggling to survive as it is? No, we have to be sure we're doing the right thing.

So obvious that I forgot: public acceptance of reducing the CO2 level, without any confidence that doing so will have any impact (a la religion) proves to the governments that we'll fall for anything - what's the harm in that? Perhaps your tax going through the roof to meet the reduced CO2 targets?!?

Without further analysis, should the precautionary policy really be applied?



Steve wrote:
While raw data for climate models are going missing, I would say a few people who are paid (with our money) to know better know better are doing exactly the wrong thing.


Some light reading:
El Reg wrote:
Scientists have ensured much of the measurement data used in the reconstructions remains a secret - failing to fulfill procedures to archive the raw data. Without the raw data, other scientists could not reproduce the results. The most prestigious peer reviewed journals, including Nature and Science, were reluctant to demand the data from contributors. Until now, that is.

At the insistence of editors of the Royal Society's Philosophical Transactions B the data has leaked into the open - and Yamal's mystery is no more.

From this we know that the Yamal data set uses just 12 trees from a larger set to produce its dramatic recent trend. Yet many more were cored, and a larger data set (of 34) from the vicinity shows no dramatic recent warming, and warmer temperatures in the middle ages.

In all there are 252 cores in the CRU Yamal data set, of which ten were alive 1990. All 12 cores selected show strong growth since the mid-19th century. The implication is clear: the dozen were cherry-picked.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 22:48 
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Journalist confronts Al Gore and very quickly gets told to shut up,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf-fzVH6 ... r_embedded

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 19:12 
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I'll post the pie-chart again.
Image
So no matter how much we reduce our carbon emissions it will make little difference.
We could stop everything, and still only reduce the CO2 in the atmosphere by 4% .......
The science is not only not proven, but is wrong.
It is however making LOTS of money for the chosen few.

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 20:57 
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I see there have now been over 350 complaints to the Advertising Standards Authority:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221916/Climate-change-advert-featuring-drowning-puppies-dying-rabbits-probed-watchdog-350-complaints.html

What's the betting the ASA dismiss them, though? :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 01:42 
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Thank you for submitting your complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority.
We have passed your complaint to our Complaints team.
A Complaints Executive will assess your complaint and will reply in full as soon as possible.
Please quote this reference number in any correspondence: xxx-xxxxxx

They did respond quite quickly to me, better than online petitions i think.

Ad heres the alternative version of the lies,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkPQU3UDBM0
Not suitable for kids

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 22:56 
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Was recently watching a program on shipping - where it was stated that ships create more pollution than all of the trucks - but do we see any moves to tax/increase duty on fuel /etc ---NO - now I wonder why .( Could it be that we have a certain DPM of nautical (and also egg throwing ) history.)?????Or more realistically that it can't be enforced .(After all ships have no VRN,and there's no SCP on the high seas)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 03:28 
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Botach is quite right. In fact the exhausts emitted from shipping near ports is a serious health issue being that the Diesel fuel used in ships is NOT the nice (ish) fuel that cars now use but the old smelly crude toxic rich stuff of garage forecourt yesteryear.

But the issue of "Climate Change" and our part in it is a real issue IMO. All this started for my money around 1974 (if not before) when the Arabs got a bit "upitty" about the cost of crude and what they were paid for it by the western companies who ripped them off and so they formed OPEC to control the price. The western Majors (Shell,BP,Total etc and the all the American brands) decided to oppose the threat to their dominance. It receded for a few years and the price dropped.
The sell-off (sell out - IMO) of North Sea Oil to the open market and other finds around the world less'end the blow for a while but it eventually became clear that the Arabs had the upper hand. Enter the "Oil Wars". The western Governments slowly realised that "dependents on oil" had to end . So............Fast forward to Al Gore............

ENTER the: "Global Warming" scare! Oh! My God! We have ALL got to reduce our dependence on imported oil! Alternative fuel! Go Green! ...........era. Get the greenies on our side!
That chap Al Gore, his very convenient lie and his Nobel prize! (It is a worry to me Y'know that the inventor of the most destructive device which has killed the most people; "Dynamite" is the founder of a "Peace prize" and that Hitler, Mousolini and Stalin have all been proposed for it!).

However, the upshot is: Ye must use less Arab oil!..............nowt to do with the greenies. They are just IMO being used to make you feel guilty..


Oh! ...and Iraq, Afganistan and Iran are ALL rich in Oil but are not right wing pro western. Go figure!.........


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 09:43 
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http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/climate-ad/

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:16 
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If that link wasn't provided I wouldn't have signed. Signed now, I saw this yesterday, really creepy that they are resorting to brain washing kids.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 22:05 
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Derby Conservative councillor's making labour throw their toys out of the pram :D
http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/ ... ticle.html

A POLITICAL row has broken out over a Derby Conservative councillor's decision to show a climate change-sceptic film in the city's council chamber.

The new film, Not Evil Just Wrong, is a documentary which suggests evidence of global warming is inconclusive and that the impact climate change laws will have on industry is much more harmful to humans than beneficial. It is a direct challenge to Al Gore's film, An Inconvenient Truth, with was shown to councillors in Derby during Labour's control of the authority in 2007.

Tory councillor Frank Leeming put forward the idea to show the new film today, sparking criticism from Labour councillors.

Labour group leader Chris Williamson said: "I am totally appalled. The council is committed to reducing carbon emissions, yet the Conservatives are pushing a film which threatens all of that.

"It reaffirms our belief that the Conservatives have merely been paying lip service to environmental issues in pushing their new branding as a caring party."

And Labour councillor Ranjit Banwait, who is vice-chairman of the council's climate change commission, called for the resignation of its Conservative chairman.

He said: "If the Conservatives don't believe in climate change, then perhaps the chairman of the commission, Tory councillor Phil Ingall, should step down.

"They're setting an incredibly dangerous precedent. They're peddling a viewpoint which disputes what scientists have already proved about the state of the planet. Why would they do that?"

But Harvey Jennings, leader of the Conservative group, said Mr Leeming's view was not shared by the group as a whole, adding that the Tories were "committed to tackling climate change" and believed it was a reality.

He said: "This is about facilitating freedom of speech."

He added that Mr Leeming's actions were not an embarrassment to his party.

Mr Leeming confirmed he was a climate change sceptic.

He said: "Al Gore's film contained nine 'facts' which were wrong – and this film shows scientists answering those points."

He said he did not feel his strong views, which differ from the local Tory group's stance, meant he should not be a member of the party.

"We are a democratic group which allows free speech. I don't see any reason why I shouldn't do this," he said.

Conservative MEP Roger Helmer is an outspoken sceptic of climate change and has even published his own book challenging the issue.

He said it was right that councillors should be able to show another side to the debate over climate change and screened the film himself in the European parliament.

"There is no point saying a party which has signed up to a green agenda is not allowed to say a word, that is not honest politics," he said.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 21:42 
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With less than two months to go before the big Copenhagen Conference on global warming, two major nations have said "no thanks" to the no-growth agenda. For that reason alone, so should we.

Following a deal signed late Thursday between China and India, anything we might agree to do in Copenhagen is likely moot anyway. The two mega-nations — which together account for nearly a third of the world's population — said they won't go along with a new climate treaty being drafted in Copenhagen to replace the Kyoto Protocol that expires in 2012.

They're basically saying no to anything that forces them to impose mandatory limits on their output of greenhouse gas emissions. Other developing nations, including Mexico, Brazil and South Africa, will likely reject any proposals as well.

The deal was already in trouble. Three weeks ago, the Group of 77 developing nations met in Thailand to discuss what they wanted to do about global warming. Their answer: nothing.

William Hawkins, writing in the American Thinker, quotes a piece in China's Science Times journal that sums up how China — and other developing nations — feel:

"Why do the developed countries put an arguable scientific problem on the international negotiations table?" the article's author, Wang Jin, asks. "The real intention is not for the global temperature increase, but for the restriction of the economic development of the developing countries."

They see clearly what the rest of us seem to miss — that, for all its bad science, the Copenhagen Conference is about the world's Lilliputians tying down its Gullivers, not about global warming at all.

So, thanks to China and India, Copenhagen is dead — just as Kyoto was when it was signed in 1992, though no one knew it at the time. Without them, no global treaty on climate change will be workable.

The two nations are not only the world's most populous (with, together, more than 2 billion people), they are also the fastest-growing major countries. China is now the world's No. 1 emitter of greenhouse gases, and India is catching up fast.

Even with their participation, Copenhagen should have been a non-starter for the U.S. Indeed, the main reason for the greenhouse gas deal, all but admitted to by its major participants, is to cripple the U.S. economy — the most successful economy in the world.

True enough, as green critics keep saying, we produce nearly 20% of the world's CO2 and other greenhouse gases with just 5% of the world's population. But our GDP of roughly $14 trillion is nearly 25% of the world's total — in line with our gas output.

We provide jobs and consumption not just for Americans, but for tens of millions of people overseas whose livelihoods depend on satisfying the massive American market.

In case you're still worried about warming, stop. Since 1998, the data show global temperatures have fallen. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says this can't be happening. None of the IPCC's models shows a possibility of rising CO2 output and declining temperature.

But even Paul Hudson, the pro-warming-theory BBC climate correspondent, recently had to admit: "For the last 11 years, we have not observed any increase in global temperatures. And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise."

Yet, the IPCC estimates that "remediation" of the warming trend will cost about 1.7% of world GDP. In the U.S., that's about $240 billion a year. For the entire world, it's about $1 trillion a year — or $71 trillion over the next 70 years or so.

Proposals to slash CO2 won't work anyway. Department of Energy estimates indicate that 97% of all CO2 emissions would continue even if humans didn't exist.

Even so, climatologist Chip Knappenberger estimates that laws like the recent Waxman-Markey bill would, if fully enacted, reduce future warming by just 0.2 degrees Celsius by 2100 — not enough even to measure accurately.

Can the world really afford to give up $71 trillion in the coming decades to solve a phantom problem?

Given the shoddiness of the science behind warming claims and the refusal of the biggest CO2 emitters to play along with the climate change sham, it would be economically ruinous for the U.S. to do anything other than wish the rest of the world a nice day, and go about our business
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/edito ... copenhagen

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 22:06 
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So, thanks to China and India, Copenhagen is dead — just as Kyoto was when it was signed in 1992, though no one knew it at the time. Without them, no global treaty on climate change will be workable.

It won't be spun that way. I have no doubt the governments of developed countries will continue manipulating the electorate to make them happy to pay 'guilt tax' and to continue 'leading the way' - or should that be leading the way of spinning the loss of productive output as efforts to cut CO2 :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 23:43 
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What productive output ?
As pointed-out to the US by the PRC...."lots of our emissions are because we make lots of things you buy"
Ditto: India
Ditto: Korea
In our case it will mean turning the air conditioners off that cool offices ?
I think that'll get a warm welcome: Not.

I STILL have not received any reply from the GREEN party about how they intend to reduce the population of the UK to 16 million (sustainable) and still get any work done at all.

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 20:07 
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Response from ASA,
Dear Sir/Madam,

YOUR COMPLAINT: ACT ON CO2 TV AND PRESS ADS

We have considered your complaint and will take it up with the advertisers, the Department for Energy and Climate Change.

We intend to deal with your complaint under our formal investigations procedure, which means that we will ask Clearcast (the Broadcast Advertising Clearance Centre) and the Department for Energy and Climate Change to comment on the complaint and send evidence to support the claims. We will then refer your complaint to the ASA Council for adjudication. Once the Council has made a decision, the adjudication will be published on our website.

We have received complaints about advertising in the campaign that covers both broadcast and non-broadcast media. The different media are considered by separate Councils, but all the ads will be investigated together. This means that the investigation may take a little longer than usual but ensures that the decisions reflect all the available information and are appropriate to the media.

We will be investigating the following points (please note the order differs slightly from the list posted on our website last week) -

Complainants objected to the TV ad because they believed:

1. the ad was political in nature and should not be broadcast;

2. the theme and content of the ad, for example the dog drowning in the storybook and the depiction of the young girl to whom the story was being read, could be distressing for children who saw it;

3. the ad should not have been shown when children were likely to be watching television;

4. the ad was misleading because it presented human induced climate change as a fact, when there was a significant division amongst the scientific community on that point;

5. the claim “over 40% of the CO2 was coming from ordinary everyday things” was misleading;

6. the representation of CO2 as a rising cloud of black smog was misleading;

7. the claims about the possible advent of strange weather and flooding, and associated imagery in the ad, in the UK were exaggerated, distressing and misleading;

Some complainants objected to the press ad on the grounds of (4) and (7) above and we will also be investigating those complaints.

Points (1) and (4) in relation to the TV ad may be subject to Section 4 of the CAP (Broadcast) TV Advertising Standards Code, which is administered by Ofcom. We will therefore be referring to Ofcom objections to the TV campaign raised in respect of “political” objectives. Ofcom will in due course be publishing a Finding of its determination. When both bodies have concluded their investigations we plan to notify complainants of both our and Ofcom’s decisions, and we will write to you again at that point.

Please treat all correspondence as confidential until such time as a decision is published on our website.

Due to the postal strike and the particularly large volume of complaints received, we regret that we have been unable to send personally addressed correspondence on this occasion.

Yours sincerely


Jenny Alexander
Investigations Executive

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 13:52 
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Steve wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
The behaviour of the Arctic ice cap and the opening of the north west passage suggests that it is getting warmer up there.

It's been open for quite a while already.
Using this as an proof of AGW is highly specious (not specifically aimed at you DCB, but too many people unthinkingly refer to this).
Wouldn't you expect sea levels to rise if we're exiting an earlier ice age? Did you know the sea levels were 140m lower 10,000 years ago?


Someone's just been stung with that claim!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 14:46 
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The times is owned by news international.
I wonder how much the NI empire will reap from emissions trading ?

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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