Safe Speed Forums

For the Al Gore fans amongst us..... remember, this slimy leech just peddled a few lies as opposed to the person who really deserved recognition.
Truly sickening and greatly devalues the peace prize.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shepp ... or-al-gore

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"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/01/climategate-grows-to-include-other-research-institutions/

Have a read of THIS PDF FILE

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

You are quite right. After looking into the this much more closely I have to say that I am very disturbed by the actions of the so called scientists at the CRU.
In particular the loss of the original data is very bad. Whilst the loss of original data is not unusual (much of our original Radio Astronomy data is on media such as paper tape which can no longer be read) the fact that the transformations which it has been through appear to be irreversible, due to sloppy programming, is unforgivable.
But climate gate does not necessarily mean that AGW is not happening. It means that we have to discount the evidence from that one institution. Evidence from other researchers should not be tainted by this scandal

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/01/climategate-grows-to-include-other-research-institutions/



Few are disclaiming the warming. Many are [now] disclaiming that homo-sapiens are responsible for it.
The evidence for MAN -MADE global warming is not there.
There are few explanations as to why 5% of CO2 should be causing 100% of warming. And if we reduce mankinds output [of CO2] by 50% will reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by less than 2.5% make any difference ?
Especially since the major "greenhouse" gas in the atmosphere is water.
The PROBLEM for "climate researchers" is that the sun has a far more dramatic influence than one trace gas (CO2) and coupled with factors that influence the amount of solar radiation inputting the globe means that the science can NEVER be settled [yet] because the VARIABLES are difficult to account for.
Also, with many hundreds of billions riding the global warming horse, I doubt that honesty will ever prevail, since science and scientists have to eat like the rest of us.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Front page headlines Daily Express- "The Big Climate Change Fraud".

"Dont blame us say scientists, its all a con to raise tax".


Oops, wheels well off the agw bandwagon....dont panic! Dump your green shares now!

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"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

I think it fair to say that such data regarding astronomy right now won't have anywhere as significant an impact on policy (effects how we live, work, progress and the taxes we pay) as climate measuring, modelling and projection.


Ideally you are right, but this isn't an ideal situation.
We know other climate modellers are equally as coy with their raw data & techniques as the CRU; they also suffer from the same conflicts of interest. This still doesn't mean they should be as tainted, but I think the unbiased reader can be forgiven for applying a level of suspicion towards them. Of course these other institutions can eliminate any such doubts simply by releasing their raw data and their methodologies for open scrutiny (especially those institutions which are somehow funded by the taxpayer - it's their duty to).

Given where we are, if these climate modellers are serious about 'saving the planet' then they have no choice but to release all their workings; it is now the only thing they can do to win over the reasonable sceptics (who are increasingly growing in numbers and strength). Why wouldn't they if they genuinely believe their analysis to be correct and justifiable? What have they got to hide?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Also, don't forget the implication that the scientific "Peer review" process has been manipulated to ensure that the only people doing the "Peer reviewing" are other "approved" climate scientists!

Its a bit like going to a Scientology meeting and concluding that their world view MUST be correct because they all agree with each other!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I read somewhere, but can't remember where, that the earth's orbit around the sun was changing and becoming more circular. I notice with the temperature series that it seems the extremes are narrowing which seems to tally with the earth changing orbit from a commonsense perspective. Also this would lead to weather being more uniform during the year as the earth would lose some of the variability in it's distance away from the sun. It would also lead to an increase in average temperatures but not in absolute temperatures generally wouldn't it?

The AGW proponents are arguing abrupt and significant changes in a short timescale.
I couldn't expect such an abrupt and significant change of solar orbital trajectory in such a short timescale, even with controlling water flow and creation of skyscrapers.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

No of course it will not. My point was that loss of raw data is not always evidence of evil intent. And the fact that the CRU's raw data cannot be reconstructed whereas the RA data could be. That is the differance between dodgy and respectable science.


No but the simple proposition: dodyy dealings at CRU => all climate research is bunk (which is being put out by various rgiht wing) sceptics is not a fair one


I understand that some of the data is obtained from commercial organisations with the caveat that they do not publish it. A reprehensible situation but better than not having access to that data.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm

All explained in the url.

With hundreds of billions riding on the computer models predictions, I very much doubt they will show anything less than their programmers want them to.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Agreed. However, you have to agree it is reasonable to have some suspicions of those who refuse to show their workings.


I don't know, there is other data. Better to go with what we know than to introduce unknown factors into the mix.
Obviously commercial organisations cannot be considered as independent and have a more obvious conflict of interest.
The conclusions from the analysis of such data has no place outside of those commercial organisations.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Worth looking in to, especially the timescales (shorter than I thought). Thanks for that.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Well if I have to then I have to



Not necessarily. A lot of "climate" data is collected by commercial organisations for their business of forecasting the weather. I can't see why a weather forecaster would have a vested interest in proving AGW. A temperature reading is a temperature reading whether you are Monbiot or jomouk.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Of course, if your temperature reading come from a system that was originally in the middle of nowhere but over a period of time becomes surrounded with tarmac and air conditioners, then you may expect it to show reading that bear little to the general "climate"

http://www.heartland.org/publications/environment%20climate/article/25654/Nearly_90_of_Temperature_Stations_Show_Extreme_Heat_Bias_Study_Says.html

You can go into this further if you want and download the complete book HERE.



Of course many are saying that the survey itself [of stations] is flawed...sigh...

Or you could try reading ***this*** [not unbiased I suppose....but then agw proponents are also biased].

***** Mr. Lindzen is professor of meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology *****

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Here and now is the time and place for you to state your reasons if you disagree.


Expanding their empire, as well as securing funding (income) for further research - perhaps now you see?

Commercial ventures are profit-driven businesses; commercially funded weather forecasters are competing against other commercially funded weather forecasters. What better way to gain a funding edge is there than by being alarmist?

... apart from withstanding open scrutiny!

With all these things: always follow the funding!

This doesn't detract from my earlier point: commercial or not, those who publically make claims (especially when it can affect worldwide policy), which have been disputed, must show their workings and data; no data/workings > no reason for credibility.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Make more accurate forecasts?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

According to HadleyCRU they will be able to offer forecasts for a 25km square area in the future.
But since weather forecasters get it wrong for tomorrow half of the time.....mind you, they do say that forecasting 50 years in the future is more accurate than the present....but how would they know ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

What they actually say are that they have more confidence in their prediction about the climate in 50 years time than in their prediction about tomorrow's weather

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Exactly.
Very few are disputing that the climate is changing.
The dispute is the cause and if human activity is responsible.
And as to whether (or not) ceasing human activities additions to the atmosphere will limit or halt the progress of changing climate.
But there are too many variables.
And too many people with limited expertise in limited fields, but with unlimited arrogance and an even more unlimited desire to get rich.
And nobody will answer the question "why will the amount of CO2 caused by humans (5% of the 380ppm) make any difference"
Indeed: I get the overpowering impression that climate change is not important to those who make policy and rule the world. The science is not important. The events are not important. What is important is that it is an excuse to do things that people would normally disagree with. Irrespective of future events.
In fact the most important question is now: DOES ANYONE REALLY CARE ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN A REASON TO INCREASE CONTROL OVER PEOPLE.
I do not think that the political leaders of the world believe in human-caused-climate-change.
I doubt that any believe in much at all, other than personal power.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing