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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 19:28 
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Steve wrote:
They can't see inside vehicles during the night.


Surely that depends on what type of camera they're using? I don't see any reason why you can't fit IR or nightvision to a talivan.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 19:57 
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Lum wrote:
Steve wrote:
They can't see inside vehicles during the night.


Surely that depends on what type of camera they're using? I don't see any reason why you can't fit IR or nightvision to a talivan.

Vehicle glass doesn't pass IR very well (even near IR), and that light has to pass through twice (in and out). I reckon the camera will have to be quite close by to be useful, but in that case the vehicle may be panning too fast to get a good shot inside.

The camera could use a wide apeture to gather more light, but there are problems with that too. I have an F1.2 video camera! It really does work very well in low light, but focussing is a total b£$!£d because the usable depth of field is so damned short.

It’s not as if the SCPs have never exaggerated their claims of effectiveness of their tools, eh Greenshed!! So for now I'll remain sceptical that such tasks can be done reliably.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 20:20 
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Talivans aren't allowed to point the cameras through the glass at the back of the van, that's against the type approval for their use as speed cams, that's why they have a little flap on the window. Therefore vehicle glass is a non-issue.

My understanding of these is that they are multi purpose cams. They have the speed measurement gubbins same as existing talivans, but also a button that the operator can press if he thinks an offence has been comitted. The picture is then sent wirelessly to the control room where another officer will determine what offence has been comitted and take appropriate action.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 20:41 
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Lum wrote:
Talivans aren't allowed to point the cameras through the glass at the back of the van, that's against the type approval for their use as speed cams, that's why they have a little flap on the window. Therefore vehicle glass is a non-issue.

I was referring to the glass of the vehicle being targeted (to see inside it).

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 20:55 
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doh! that is a good point. :oops:

If they do start using IR, I wonder how long before IR reflecting window tint becomes available? The rules on tinting only apply to visible light, right?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 00:14 
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so what are you asking ????

can static cameras pick up mobile phone / seat belts ----- no

can mobile vans pick up mobile phone / seat belt ---- yes

can mobile vans work in the dark --- yes

can static cameras work in the dark --- yes

can mobile cameras pick up mobile phone / seat belts in the dark --- depends on the amount of lighting, probably not IMO

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 00:35 
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camera operator - in all of your posts - you've never recoginised one single fact ,which was put forward by one of our beat officers who opposed local comunnity police ofices - it takes a police vehicle travelling on blue lights about five minutes to get to an officer in trouble .Plant a van in the sticks ,and see how long it takes proper police to attwnd ,knowing that these berks are bringing the blokes attending into disrepute .So then ,would you sit in the back of beyond waiting for problems to hapen ,and knowing that the poliice might decide that you & van are a low priority .

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 00:44 
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botach wrote:
camera operator - in all of your posts - you've never recoginised one single fact ,which was put forward by one of our beat officers who opposed local comunnity police ofices - it takes a police vehicle travelling on blue lights about five minutes to get to an officer in trouble .Plant a van in the sticks ,and see how long it takes proper police to attwnd ,knowing that these berks are bringing the blokes attending into disrepute .So then ,would you sit in the back of beyond waiting for problems to hapen ,and knowing that the poliice might decide that you & van are a low priority .



so are you concerened about the welfare of my fellow cam ops, thank you

on a personnal note, the latest i ever worked on my own was 2 am, ok it was a pre planned op, me and my van (which i dont use any more) are low priority, depends on the scenario, it was locked, it had police markings all over it, i carry a radio, and i am 6'4 18stone,

on a cynical note how would the berks know i was there, i thought all talivans were invisible

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:37 
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I have used 4 different mobile systems at night and 3 work just fine giving a lovely clear image of the driver and the vehicle. Of course you may hold that Steve's speculation as more authorative, why would anything else be expected? :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:11 
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GreenShed wrote:
I have used 4 different mobile systems at night and 3 work just fine giving a lovely clear image of the driver and the vehicle. Of course you may hold that Steve's speculation as more authorative, why would anything else be expected? :mrgreen:

What about the opinion of the person who is honest enough to say that he works on the front lines? Why did you conveniently disregard that?
If you think your opinion is at least as equivalent then can I now give you the relevant avatar/badge:
:camera:

What are the three sets of mobile system you refer to - which aren't "detrimental to night-time drivers"? That’s what we’re talking about!
We know there is the DCam, which I didn't believe was UK approved yet, so that can’t be one.

Do the units you refer to always look inside the vehicle (implying a full time, video recording of every passing driver), or are they triggered only when a speeding infringement is committed?

With seat belts in darkness, do they still have the (lack of) silhouette issue we already discussed? Would that also be a bit of a problem with dark clothing? In that respect, can the setup really reliably detect such offences?
How good are these roadside mobile cameras at differentiating between Bluetooth headsets being operated and handheld mobiles?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 16:23 
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Quote:
With seat belts in darkness, do they still have the (lack of) silhouette issue we already discussed? Would that also be a bit of a problem with dark clothing? In that respect, can the setup really reliably detect such offences?


An interesting point, until recently I used to drive a 2 seater convertible, which due to safety issues tend to have much lower seats than a car with a roof. The seat belt anchors were lower than the top of the bucket seats. Also due to my being horrendously colour blind I will tend to dress in black (I know that it matches then :lol: ).

Even during the day it was nearly impossible for an outside observer to accuratley establish wether my seatbelt was on or not, in fact on a few occasions I was tugged by the traffic plod because they were convinced I wasn't. I too would be interested how a video system that has 2 high powered halogen lamps being fired at it (headlamps) can see into the cockpit of a vehicle which has a UV reflective windscreen at night, when the naked eye can't see it during the day in perfect conditions?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 05:45 
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I have a clip on as I dislike it when a seatbelt can dig into you, so I have them a bit loose. That has had a few cops give a quick tug to see ... stop and check, usu resulting into discussions about how far away I am from home and dogs and so on ! :)
But some seatbelt holders are far too high up and esp for ladies and our 'figures' - they are just not suitable ! I either find they dig under your chin and rub your neck (like in the grrrr*** Corsa) (although a well placed elastic band and suitable fold did the trick) or they dig into your chest area, all most unsuitable.
Then if I have the dogs in the back of the car their silhouette often stops any vision of the seatbelt impression.
I cannot see with the equipment around at the moment how they will prosecute by cameras at night for non use of seatbelts, unless they upgrade equipment a lot. The lights reflect off the windscreen too so that won't help them either.
Thinking of interior lights though I have seen a few cars lately going about with them on ! Then of course they can see in !

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 14:27 
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Remarkably selective with what he replies to, isn't he!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 06:33 
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;) Probably busy trying to set up a night vision camera ! :) Mind I guess he could use a heli for it - hide one Apache behind a bush and when it rises and if the downforce doesn't blow some cars either, off the road or cause and accident I am sure he could then obtain a few images of some people not applying their seat belts properly or going 1mph over the posted limit. Although the downforce might have a few go backwards! ;)
He really ought to just come clean and say that he is who we believe him to be anyway ... then I can give him a little camera operator badge (once verified of course). After all how can we trust anything he says, if he is not part of this 'team-ship' of partners ? ;)

On a serious note I must try and ensure we hold that head to head, the radio station agreed to.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 14:00 
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GreenShed wrote:
The cameras Kevin is refering to used a flash, the Truvo mobile uses an IR illuminating flood and video.

There is little problem with aiming or opinion of speed in the dark.

The systems planned for dark hours working will address the people you commonly say are missed; where's the problem with this?



You found the pink flashes did not work the last time.


By the way - we have checked your figures on KSI recently und matched against hospital stats - also available on the National Statistics web-page. They do not match. Not a surprise... they never have so far.. :popcorn:


As far the cams nailing other illegal motorists? How? NIP in the post 14 days later does not help the one with the cloned plates :roll:. According to current Traffic Cops progs und newspapers plus a highly visible/much publicised GMP/West Yorks und various other POLICE operations in various supermarket und service station car parks across their patches - the police are taking the CLONING aspect seriously und actively fitting cars with so-called tamper free plates- GRATIS.

They would not be taking this action unless there was a serious und recognised problem... und their own Press Releases on what they are doing to help provide proof of cloning.

They also blamed the over-reliance on cameras for the upsurge in cloning...

Furthermore .. the registered keeper may not be the actual driver who would be legally entitled to drive the vehicle und your night time cameras per your own posts so far seem to indicate there could be a dispute as to who was driving the car if family users fail to keep a log - which most do not in the real life world of human family life. :popcorn:

But carry on living in denial Steviebabes.. the residents in Cumbria are not seeing any improvements in road safety und no local tax payer here ist paying you to chat to yourself under various handles in various fora. We have identified this person under many different names across many boards - including this one

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