Safe Speed Forums

Your question was very clear
"Let me ask in a clearer way: should those who willingly drive whilst knowingly many times over the alcohol limit, but didn't crash, face prosecution?"

NO
No harm. No loss. No contract broken. THIS APPLIES TO FREEMEN.

YES
If you have a Driving Licence [and other social contracts see below]
you should face prosecution.

Social Contracts include:
Driving Licence
National Insurance Number
Payment of taxes. Road tax. Income tax. Council tax.........

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Dave ~ Freeman on the Land
http://www.freemanhighland.co.uk/
A paradigm shift in law and politics

Wait a minute...
My question was of those who were driving (drunk); licensing and freemanism are irrelevant.

Let me fine tune the question:
Should freemen who willingly drive whilst knowingly many times over the alcohol limit, but didn't crash, face prosecution?
I assume you expect prosecution of non-freemen under the same circumstances.

It appears you are saying freemen don't have licences; do these freemen drive on UK public roads?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

He says that he doesn't have a driving licence but that he has passed a driving test. But you need to present a valid driving licence in order to be allowed to take a driving test.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I did have a Driving Licence when I sat my Driving test.

"It appears you are saying freemen don't have licences; do these freemen drive on UK public roads?"

Correct and Yes.

"Freemen-on-the-Land" who have sent their affidavit to HM Queen
and are in Lawful Rebellion, and also published their NOUICOR
"Notice of Understanding and Intent and Claim of Right"
do not own licences. [or indeed Register anything]

Licences allow people to do things legally which they can do lawfully anyway.

Many Freemen TRAVEL [note the differance between Driving and Traveling]
without licences or number plates on their cars.
Their cars which have been de registered.
You are the Registered Keeper of Your car. As you registered Your car you gave ownership to the DVLA.

I appreciate this is all a difficult concept to grasp but my reason for being in this forum is to see how Tax payers deal with "The Law" which is not My LAW.
My Law is my NOUICOR.

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Dave ~ Freeman on the Land
http://www.freemanhighland.co.uk/
A paradigm shift in law and politics

Thank you, but you haven't answered the question I really want answered.
The offence of driving without a license aside:

Do you believe freemen who willingly drive whilst knowingly many times over the alcohol limit (incapable of piloting a motor vehicle without a significant possibility of crashing into nearby people - blotto), but haven't yet crashed (is only a matter of time), should face prosecution?
Or, are you happy for yourself and others (like your 'nearest and dearest') to interact within that extreme risk environment?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Ah, at last I begin to understand who Freemen are.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Do you believe freemen who willingly drive whilst knowingly many times over the alcohol limit (incapable of piloting a motor vehicle without a significant possibility of crashing into nearby people - blotto), but haven't yet crashed (is only a matter of time), should face prosecution?
Or, are you happy for yourself and others (like your 'nearest and dearest') to interact within that extreme risk environment?

I DO NOT Drink & Drive. I do drive in an extreme risk environment. The roads.
What others do is no concern of mine. I travel with extreame vigilance at all times and advise others to do likewise.

No one should face prosecution unless there is harm or loss or contracts have been broken.

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Dave ~ Freeman on the Land
http://www.freemanhighland.co.uk/
A paradigm shift in law and politics

Please note: I did not ask about your personal driving habits; I am talking about freemen in general.

My question was regarding possible prosecution of freemen who do wantonly drink and drive - do you believe they should be prosecuted, yes or no?

Are you happy to let people (or even freemen) drive on public roads while blotto, arresting them only when they crash into property/people?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

>>Please note: I did not ask about your personal driving habits; I am talking about freemen in general.

I do not know about Freemen in general.

>>>My question was regarding possible prosecution of freemen who do wantonly drink and drive - do you believe they should be prosecuted, yes or no?

NO No loss or harm.

>>>Are you happy to let people (or even freemen) drive on public roads while blotto, arresting them only when they crash into property/people?

People [slaves] and Freemen do drive on public roads while blotto,
what is done by them is not my concern. As long as the stay away from me.
Some people take prescribed drugs and other drugs while driving perhaps we should include them.

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Dave ~ Freeman on the Land
http://www.freemanhighland.co.uk/
A paradigm shift in law and politics

I thought you were trying to educate the reader about their ideology...




You're absolutely barking!

No sane person (who isn't utterly selfish or sociopathic) will support you.


You obviously don’t get it. As long as such behaviours are allowed they will never be far enough away from you. Most people will abide by unwritten social norms (I have no reason to doubt that you would too), but some will have a field day.

Today there is a small chance of yourself being run over by a drunk driver in your lifetime, although I should point out that such offenders would be those who subscribe to your freeman ideology (otherwise they wouldn’t have done it, obviously).
If instead everyone lived as you advocate (don't bother with licences or formal tuition, drink/drug as much as they like and drive around at 140mph on any road, but be arrested only after they kill) the only people living into the next week will be those in jail.
Do you really want that level of anarchy and risk of consequence to befall you and your family?

The rest of society doesn't; we understand and accept the limitations of some freedoms such that needlessly elevated risk is minimised to us and our loved ones.

Say you and your family happened upon an armed rapist/druggie in the street and he wanted to do terrible things to you. He aims at you and pulls the trigger but luckily the gun jams: no harm done - right!?!
Would you really shrug it off and say "It was only attempted murder" because no harm came from it, even though you and the rest of society will live in fear knowing he is free to walk off, keep and fix his gun and try again?
Ordinarily I would have thought that question is a no-brainer, but I find myself wondering how you will respond…


I don't believe this is a case of everyone not comprehending this freemen ideology, rather it is case of you not comprehending what the rest of society already understands. Society wants rules, not because we accept oppression, but because we want protection from those who otherwise wouldn’t feel the need to abide by the unwritten social norms.
As you rightly point out, some will abuse rules and legislation, but the answer to that is to bring such abusers to account (or at least call for their actions to be transparent), not to simply ditch all the rules.
Maybe we could ask the people living on/near the Somali coast if they think it is preferable to live in a lawless society.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

One would think that behaving in a manner so reckless as to put other people's lives in danger or to put them in fear for their lives would be one of those self evident "natural laws" which the Freemen claim to accept. Evidently not, so it is probably fair to describe them as socio-paths. Crowley's "Do what thou will shall be the only law" seems to be what they subscribe to.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Thank you all for your replies. You have confirmed what I suspected.
I believe you would rather stand under Statutes, Acts, ByLaws ......etc
no matter what they do to you.

Thank you again.

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Dave ~ Freeman on the Land
http://www.freemanhighland.co.uk/
A paradigm shift in law and politics

I would rather stand under the rule of law, even if I some of those laws inconvenience me, than descend into anarchy.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

+1
...even if those laws are sometimes abused by those who set them.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Oh I think you're all being rather hard on our "Freeman"! He's come on here generously offering us all a lifestyle where we can do what the hell we like, escape the consequences, freeload off the rest of society if we get ill...

All we have to do is write to the Queen saying we're "barley", as it were...

...sounds pretty darned good to me!

The lack of any intelligent or considered response, or even a proper acknowledgement of the issues raised, confirms what I suspected. My old joke seems quite appropriate now.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

"The lack of any intelligent or considered response, or even a proper acknowledgement of the issues raised, confirms what I suspected. My old joke seems quite appropriate now."

Your old joke was quite funny in this context.

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Dave ~ Freeman on the Land
http://www.freemanhighland.co.uk/
A paradigm shift in law and politics