Safe Speed Forums

From the Guardian today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,2763,1208799,00.html

Howells calls for speed cuts to save lives

Sarah Hall, political correspondent
Tuesday May 4, 2004
The Guardian

Speed limits should be cut to 20 miles an hour in more "sensitive built up areas" in an attempt to cut the number of road accidents and deaths, the transport minister, Kim Howells, said yesterday.
Town halls should show more courage in imposing restrictions, which often bring fury from motorists, he said.

He also indicated that fuel taxes should go no lower. The best way of getting drivers to switch to public transport "probably is to try to tax people out of their cars in the same way as the authorities have tried to tax people off cigarettes", he said, adding: "I think the price of motoring has come down a great deal ... I don't think fuel is particularly expensive in Britain."

But he said higher motoring taxes would create serious problems for people without good transport links "who can't then access hospitals or schools or jobs".

He told the Financial Times that local authorities had the powers to slash speeds "but some of them need to have a bit more courage in applying them where there is a clear road safety benefit".

Mr Howells also indicated that the rail review - due to report in July - would promise a radical overhaul of the railways which could see the rail regulator, Tom Winsor's powers curbed. He said his control over government spending "can't go on".

"We have got to have independent regulation but that independent regulation has got to work within an overall framework where the secretary of state says this year or next year and the year after we can spend x billions on the railway," he said.

Mr Howells has been critical of the arrangement under which Mr Winsor could announce last December that Network Rail would receive £22.2bn over the next five years - a move that forced ministers £7.5bn over budget.

Which planet does he live on? Fuel "not particularly expensive" in Britain? And the old threat to "tax people out of their cars". He has to go if he can't talk sensibly about his brief.

Does he himself drive, I wonder? Obviously having a Government car and driver makes you go soft in the head.

You have to read the way it is worded.

"I don't think fuel is expensive" means "I don't know what it costs and can't be bothered to check".

I would like to know where the areas are at which road deaths would be cut by reducing the limit to 20mph. Since they are the only areas that are going to be targetted.

As for pricing people out of their cars in the same way as they have priced people out of smoking: Well have they? I don't think so.

They may have priced a few people out of smoking, but they've also got an increase in ciggie smuggling. What a wonderfully well thought out policy that's been. As for fuel tax, surely someone in Westminster must have twigged that the desire to drive is fairly inflexible with regard to cost. From my hazy recollections of economics class I think the phrase is "price inelastic". You won't halve the number of motorists by doubling the cost, but like the ciggie smuggling you may get more illegal motoring as a result. Improperly registered and uninsured MOT failures in other words.

The growth in traffic has been remarkably consistent:



from: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/smeed.html

There's no indication whatsoever in the history of modern motoring that traffic growth is likely to be significantly controllable with taxation. In fact I think we'd get riots long before traffic growth slowed appreciably.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The best way of getting drivers to switch to public transport "probably is to try to tax people out of their cars in the same way as the authorities have tried to tax people off cigarettes", he said, adding: "I think the price of motoring has come down a great deal ... I don't think fuel is particularly expensive in Britain."

Quite frankly Kim is talking complete bollocks!

The best way to get people out of cars is to provide some public transport not tax them until they can't afford it.

Lets get some rich public school boy who never uses public transport, nay, would probably not know where to catch a bus or a train from even, to run the majority of the rail service. My sister in law was sold a ticket by Virgin to come from London up the west coast line. Couldn't book a seat and was told it was because that service didn't allow seat booking. Quite the contrary, when she arrived at Euston she was told she couldn't board the train because all of the seats were booked. The T*ats had took her money for the ticket knowing she could't get on the train. She had to get on a train 2 hours later and then stood all the way to the North of England.

That's why we use cars.

Where I live, if I want to take a bus to the next town, there is one a day. There are no services to some towns. If I want to go into the town centre I can walk there quicker than I can walk to a bus stop. If I got to the bus stop there is only one an hour or less. Sunday, forget it!

That's why we use cars.

The last time I was on a train the seats were so dirty I was almost vomiting for the whole journey down to London. Of course I vomited when I got there but who doesn't?

Thats why we use cars.

The trains keep jumping off the tracks and killing the passengers. OK we haven't seen one of these for several months now, but:

Thats why we use cars.

And judging by the amount of tax we have to pay to do so and the amount of extra money we pay to buy them compared to europe and the shi*e roads we have to drive on etc...etc...etc...

We will continue to use them no matter how much tax you load on to them. So come up with a better idea Howells for goodness sake, that's what you have been voted in for.
Tax motorists out of cars, CRAP, you'll be assassinated before that happens, and what's the likelyhood of that happening Eh?

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It's Champion Man

Educated idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had occasion while in the Army, to be escorting a bunch of misfits, sorry, MPs and other assorted hangers on, round the Army Staff College Army Medical Services demonstration.
When we got to the Environmental Health stand, a good friend did the demo, and asked for questions, after a few, a government minister, a Lord Tr****ne asked, "Is that a rat trap I see there?", yes replied my friend, a few seconds pause, "Oh, what do you use it for?"
The first time I had ever seen this friend stuck for words, as was I, I was given the nod to move the party on to the next stand, before my friend had a stroke.

Now, I realise this has nothing whatsoever to do with motoring, but just adds to the realisation of the sort of people we are dealing with and who we have leading this country, and somehow we expect these people to do a good job.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Lived in Zurich for a couple of years. They have no traffic jams as we know them in London, there's plenty of parking in town, petrol is CHEAPER than here and STILL I preferred to get around by public transport because their trains, buses, trams and trolley-buses run on time, frequently and they are clean, quiet and there are enough of them.

Howells is either being cynical, or stupid, or both.

arthurdent

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DO NOT PANIC