Safe Speed Forums

The mathematics of population control by birth control do not support it either.
An aging population increasing.
A working population decreasing.
Solution: Increase the retirement age.
Problem: More people are retiring early.
"Ahh, but they have their own pensions"
Problem: Their pensions are supported by investment !

Chicken: Egg: Chicken: ?

The world cannot support an aging first-world population supported by a working third-world population.
The same way this country cannot support a public service pension paid for by taxation.
Either way, the next fifty years will see REAL problems, not the minor ones we have now. And I do not mean global warming.

Oh, and Dr Pachauri ?
GOOSE: Slowly-cooking

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Haha, nice try, but I have no problems understanding the hypothesis; where my mind boggles is at the massive unfounded assumptions and leaps of faith required to fulfil it, apparently willingly taken by the seemingly otherwise sound of mind and reason.

_________________
Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Yes, there was some twerp on the radio this afternoon saying that the extreme weather events that have caused the Eurostar problems are likely to get worse in the future because of "climate change". Now how does that work exactly?

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I also rather liked the Matt cartoon in yesterday's Sunday Telegraph:

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

This rather Dawkins like statement reminds me that what Jomukuk is saying about population may happen whether we want it or not. If massive climate change is about to occur then I suspect there is little we can do about it other than prepare to a probably inadequate extent.

_________________
Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Climate change is occurring, of that there is little doubt.
Of even less doubt is that many (if not the large majority) of the adherents of the "climate change is mans fault" brigade are so involved in sticking their snouts into every trough they can insert it into (as long as it is a money-trough) that calling them corrupt is probably being polite: To them
Rather strangely (although it should not be a surprise) is that the leader of the IPCC himself seems to be "troughing" it with the rest.
There are so many cooked records (just one example) flying about that the truth is probably somewhere out there...but certainly not anywhere near the IPCC/EACRU .
The truly vast amounts of money we are talking about here (now in the tens of trillions of dollars, and counting) means that even honest people will soon start looking for a trough to snout (never mind the AGW scientists and politicians (who could never be called honest...ever)).
Although in all honesty, science has always padded-out the story to get a bit more anyway...
The climate will stabilise: But I doubt that it will mean anything. Science has been shown to many to be as corrupt as anything in politics.
Now the "climate change is due to man" "scientists" and "supporters" have resorted to scaring the sleep out of children to get what they want (money, trillions of it).
The "third" world has started to clamour for yet more (trillions) money, to pad-out their already overflowing foreign bank accounts (doubtless they will want only US$)....
Just sit back and watch the corrupt scum fill their snouts.......................all the while moaning about how little it is...

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

On a personal level I rather resent that. I have asked you before, and you declined to reply: what corrupt financial benefit do you think that my belief in AGW confers on me? And the large majority of adherents to AGW are people like me, not politicians or climate change scientists.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Not knowing exactly what you do for a living (or who employes you) it is hard to say.

However, It would be interesting to consider what the effect on your future career propects a public announcement that "AGW was cobblers" would be?

After all David Bellemy lost jobs in areas that werent really related with the AGW argument in organisations that were not directly financed by the state as a result of not being "With the program"

But only you can awnser that question.

_________________
"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Of course, not everyone who believes in AGW is feathering their nest from the gullibility of others. Its more the 'clergy' of the cult of green, and while they are tithing from everyone, they still need their core of acolytes to regularly turn up to worship, in order to maintain a level of control.

_________________
Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSmnD-MA ... r_embedded

Part two is at the end of the first part.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

It would be good if AGW advocates would also accept that the vast majority of sceptics are sincere in their beliefs and are not receiving funds from Exxon, as the likes of Monbiot often allege.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

This was going to be a short post, but I decided to take this chance to sum up many of my own thoughts surrounding this debate, but I ended up making many edits. I've submitted a fresh post of the final revision.


Maybe if we back up a few steps and summarise what had been discussed so far...

- We know those who do the work of analysing the AGW trends are subject to conflicts of interest (no funding if no 'problem'; competition; Al Gore; and associated businesses will boom.
- We know the government are trying to find ways of ramping up taxation, and they have been involved in spreading deceit when it comes to policy (WMDs).
- I've demonstrated, to your apparent satisfaction, questionable presentation of data sets.
- The claimed IPCC AGW consensus doesn't exist.
- There is obvious propaganda surrounding the pro-AGW argument.
- There is no release of the raw data and the models used to allow independent confirmation of the AGW analysis (down goes CRU).
- We also finished discussing problems related to the precautionary principle (there is possible harm in simply acting; demonstrating to authorities that we're gullible; CO2 yields food).
- We also know there are confounding factors that muddy the pro-AGW arguments (CO2 was higher in the past yet gave no such trends; NASA now stating soot is a significant factor).
- We haven't even reliably determined the easier and often repeated short-term trends.

So my own question to explore yours is: why should you (if not you then anyone else) BELIEVE the pro-AGW arguments?

Could religion goes some way to answering that?

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

What we actually need is another ice age. Old people will drop off their perch in their droves. The population problem can only be solved with a dual pronged attack. Culling of old people and the limiting of new ones. Old people wouldn't be such an issue if they were healthy, mobile and useful. Having people sitting around unable to do anything useful economically speaking is the problem. Perhaps the cull should be extended to all benefit claimants?

At some point the world is going to have to decide whether to a choose the side of survival of the fittest or the continuation of looking after the weakest. The latter is partly to blame for the situation we have now as we're loathed to let even the most disabled and functionally useless offspring go. Also the question remains whether we should encourage unhealthy lifestyles to make old people die younger and get out of the way or whether an unhealthy lifestyle should be discouraged so that the old are less sick in that old age. But they will live longer.

It is a moral dilemma of whether the weakest should compromise the resources of the healthiest and strongest. With finite resources where do you best spend the money? Do you spend it on the weakest that my not improve/survive or do you focus on the strongest that will but have the lesser need?

Teabelly,

Your post is very thought provoking. Perhaps the real problem of humanity (in all senses of the word) is not that we are causing the climate to change but that we are seeking as a race to circumvent the Theory of Evolution and are thus signing our collective death warrant.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

The largest group of benefit claimants, by far, are those receiving state pension.
The moral dilemma does not exist for those running the system.
In the end (and it is not so far away: Falling fertility and disease) it will not matter.
Irrespective of Anthropogenic Climate Change (which does not exist: The anthropogenic part that is) things are going to start running downhill soon.
The coming ice age (mayby several thousand years away) will impose such severe restrictions upon the existing societies that massive change is inevitable.
The northern and southern hemispheres will be largely uninhabitable (at least to the extent they are now).
Most of Scotland, Ireland and England will be under ice. Lots.
It's going to get a bit cramped in the south of France. And no Easy-Jet.
Turning the heating up is not going to help.
And reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is only going to hasten the decline to the freezer (there's a thought. I wonder if the PTB know that ?)
What with grossly corrupt politicians.
And Grossly corrupt scientists.
And Grossly corrupt Big-Biz.
There seems little hope.
I have come to accept that the green party has an agenda that exceeds climate change by several hundred planetary diameters; The main one (largely unmentioned) is depopulation.
Since the green agenda cannot be separated from the agw agenda (probably because the main supporters of all these different "things" are cross-party and cross-actionist) I have come to accept that the agendas of all those are (basically) the same.
De-industrialisation and de-population.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

jomukuk I agree with you 99.99%

Scotland is one of the richest countries in the world, natural resources, coal ........

The citizens of Scotland are quite happly spending their ca$h in Afghanistan
for example, while the roads remain ungritted and potholed.

Wonderful thing democracy [I'm being facetious]

Icy out on the roads today.

_________________
Dave ~ Freeman on the Land
http://www.freemanhighland.co.uk/
A paradigm shift in law and politics

If there's global warming, why aren't we getting our fair share?

As I am retired - non at all But even when working the answer would have been the same. Outside their own discipline academics tend to be very catholic.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I do accept that, apart from conspiracy theorists such as ..., many sceptics have formed a considered judgement to reject AGW. A honest AGW exponent has to admit that the evidence is no more than compelling.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Steve/ We differ on the interpretation of the data and i respect your views. But that does not give jomouk the right to call me corrupt and to imply that i gain pecuniary advantage from my views.



In my case no. I broke my Christian indoctrination at the age of thirteen and have not embraced another religion since.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown