Safe Speed Forums

'lo again,

I had hoped that my info on the German/British study would have implied that they studied only the "official" driver training which, as many have pointed out, is woefully inadequate with regard to 'in extremis' control of your vehicle. e.g. even today, many years after ABS started appearing on cars, inexperienced drivers are alarmed and let up on the brake whenever the juddering starts. I still believe that an off-the-road course should be created in every community. And that a demonstrated competence in car control, including 'in extremis' driving should have to be demonstrated before the learner permit is given to complete the training on the road.

algullon

Hi algullon and wmoore




If I understand you correctly, I have slight problem with that because it will exclude drivers who are safe, the A to B type, who never push the car anywhere near the limit and never will. My girlfriend, for one, only does about 3000 miles per year commuting to work and back plus local shopping. If the weather’s bad she takes a bus, train or walks.

She hasn’t had an accident in the 10 years I’ve known her but, believe me, she would absolutely freak if I showed her how to do a controlled slide or handbrake turn. She certainly could never do it for herself. If she had to pass that kind of standard she would never be allowed on the road, and yet she’s got a safe driving record.

Just like all things in life, some people are naturals and others are not and never will be. So I think the key to it is for people to know their own limits, (the limits they are comfortable with which may be well bellow a high standard), and always drive within them. There's no doubt in my mind that's why she has not had an accident. If you are out of your comfort zone you are more likely to make a mistake IMHO and I don't think you can, in effect, raise a drivers comfort zone level. Whether it's nature or nurture, mine is very much higher than hers.

If my girlfriend is comfortable going around an island at 20 mph and will never go faster than 20 mph, even if it’s possible to take it at 50 mph, I don’t see much merit in pushing her to do, let’s say, 40 mph. It’s not something she would ever do or ever want to do. (Maybe not the best example but I hope you see where I’m coming from). Also, because she doesn’t do enough miles each year and never takes the car out in bad weather, even if she did bite the bullet and pass the harder test, in a real life situation she would still freak out just the same.

I think it’s good to raise the standard of drivers and driving but I think what you’re advocating is likely to discriminate so that only an 'elite few' make the grade and are allowed to drive, unless I’ve completely missed your drift? (No pun intended).

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Couldn't agree more. But some times people only go on a 1 day course and it ends up just being a bit of fun for them. You would have to, as you say, put them through the process many times so it becomes second nature.

How do you mean skidpans on tracks? When you go round a race track you will be balancing the car and your knowledge of feel as to the grip tells you if the car is on the edge and if you are about to possibly loose grip. So you can decide to apply appropriate controls depending on your intentions.
If you mean a skid pan set aside slightly away from the race track and that when practicing one will expect to skid then yes but it is controlled and a skid of your making.

Yes sorry I meant a skid pan set away from the track.

[quote=wmoore]In real life when a driver gets into a skid and is sliding towards another car or person...panic takes over and all that they have learnt on the track is thrown out the window. So we need to teach not to panic.[/quote]
There is more to this, when many people start to have an accident (appreciate many failures in attention prior to this) they drive to where they stare and so fail to look for the escape routes, that would have seen them miss or control an exit route.
I agree that this stare is part of the panic and teaching people to look for the escape routes is 'easy' and take practice so that it is second nature when they need it.
Teaching how to drive well is only part of the process, teaching how to cope with skids is another. Part of not skidding is understanding exactly how 'your' vehicle behaves when you start to loose grip. Fail to 'fee' and you miss the first crucial indicator, that you have otherwise already missed. However to control the skid can help you miss the 'target' too and learning how to do that takes practice.
One afternoon of one good skid pan course will give 'one' a life time of skid experiences.[/quote]

As you or someone else said there are good courses and not so good ones.