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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 22:28 
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http://sppiblog.org/news/a-sense-of-due ... n#more-379

I think he neatly sums up why a lot just don't believe the hype about AGW.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 22:45 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
steve wrote:
So my own question to explore yours is: why should you (if not you then anyone else) BELIEVE the pro-AGW arguments?


Steve/ We differ on the interpretation of the data

No we do not!

I have not even tried to interpret the data - how can I when it is impossible to get hold of it.
Where we differ is the requirement of some sort of justification for our beliefs.

I ask again: why do you say you have adherent "belief in AGW"?
I want to know how you hold that opinion despite all the factors I stated within my previous post.

dcbwhaley wrote:
... and have not embraced another religion since.

So would I be right in saying the justification for your support of the pro-AGW arguments go beyond what is in the public domain? If not, have you done exactly that which you say you have dismissed, by having a "belief in AGW"?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 22:56 
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I can't be bothered to wade through the whole thread, but did anyone see Baldrick on C4 last night and his climate change programme?

He was investigating old civilisations and how they coped with climate change (must have been the 12th century Range Rovers). Any road up, they blamed it on the gods and even tried human sacrifice. Sounds rather familiar to me....


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 02:22 
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Fox news on climate change:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 00:10 
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A rather useful insight into the whole argument against agw.

http://joannenova.com.au/globalwarming/ ... banner.pdf

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 09:15 
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The real reason for the "climate-change" hysteria:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/dec/14/climate-change-battle-redefine-humanity

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:43 
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Or maybe you would like to sign the PETITION

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 15:21 
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jomukuk wrote:


Quote monbiot "We know, from the papers published in Nature in April, that we can use a maximum of 60% of current reserves of coal, oil and gas if the average global temperature is not to rise by more than two degrees. We can burn much less if, as many poorer countries now insist, we seek to prevent the temperature from rising by more than 1.5C. We know that capture and storage will dispose of just a small fraction of the carbon in these fuels. There are two obvious conclusions: governments must decide which existing reserves of fossil fuel are to be left in the ground, and they must introduce a global moratorium on prospecting for new reserves. Neither of these proposals has even been mooted for discussion"

So we can control temperature can we george ? :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 23:30 
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Don't think this link has been posted before, thought some might find the video lecture interesting.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/175641-climategate-revolt-of-the-physicists

Quote:
This lecture by Jasper Kirkby reviews the recent research that physicists have been conducting into climate change. Physicists have discovered that changes in the rate of cosmic ray inflow cause climate change and that solar activity shields the earth from cosmic rays. They haven't completely worked out the mechanism yet, but they think it has to do with cosmic rays causing cloud formation and clouds reflecting sunlight back into space.

When Kirkby gets to the screen showing Galactic Modulation of Climate over the last 500 million years and the cosmic ray variation that explains it, take a close look at the line that plots CO2 over the same period. Note that that line doesn't correspond at all to the temperature periodicity evident in the temperature data. Also listen when Kirkby points out that CO2 concentrations used to be 10 times higher than they are today.

And don't miss the most chilling (literally) prediction of all based on a careful study of sunspot intensity. This prediction was originally submitted and rejected for publication in 2005 (Sunspots May Vanish by 2015), but has been coming true ever since. The earth appears to be headed toward a period of dramatic cooling, at present, due to reduced solar activity.

Meanwhile, clueless world leaders will be meeting at a UN Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen December 7-18 in an attempt to reduce carbon emissions in order to slow global warming.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 00:09 
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You are assuming that the "world leaders" believe the world is warming.
Since "world leaders" is a euphemism for "world-class-liars" you can safely assume that they:
1. Do not believe, or care, in global warming.
2. Seriously believe in taxing everyone until they scream for relief, in the name of global warming.
At least the "expensesgate" scandal has lifted the lid on westminster attitudes to the "electorate"....they don't give a rats arse about the electorate.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 15:57 
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Looks like the met office need to upgrade their X-Box 360 :)

It has a gigantic supercomputer, 1,500 staff and a £170m-a-year budget. So why does the Met Office get it so wrong?

Its supercomputer makes 1,000 billion calculations a second - then tells us to expect a mild winter. But what would you expect from a 'scientific' organisation that for 20 years has been dominated by climate change zealots, and whose current chairman is the former boss of the World Wildlife Fund?

'Cold of a variety not seen in over 25 years in a large scale is about to engulf the major energy-consuming areas of the northern hemisphere. The first 15 days of the opening of the New Year will be the coldest, population weighted, north of 30 [degrees] north worldwide in over 25 years.'
That is the chilling (quite literally) verdict of Joe Bastardi, a weather forecaster on the American TV channel AccuWeather.
Yet, while many months ago he and several of his rivals correctly forecast a pre-Christmas freeze, the organisation that told us last year to prepare for a 'barbecue summer' was getting it wrong again.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z0bYqM7QPS

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 17:22 
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They have already explained all that: It is EASY to foresee CLIMATE change but WEATHER is fraught with difficulties.
So,they can get it right FIFTY years in the future, but be wrong tomorrow.
See ?
And they *S T I L L* have not explained why 5% of CO2 is doing most of the warming (that we haven't got here yet).
But then....you said the magic words in your post

gigantic supercomputer
1,500 staff
£170m-a-year

A much better explanation than "unknown forcing effect"

Here, have a LAUGH

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 19:11 
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Point of information, not an argument, but how do you insulate external solid walls?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 19:46 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Point of information, not an argument, but how do you insulate external solid walls?

AFAIK -external cladding -lot more expensive. This is only from what was done round here -the depth of cavity in mine (and rest of street ) is too small for cavity insulation ,but the council did have a policy of cladding so many a year .The money ran out one year ,early ,due to stock transfer losses ,never to return .

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 19:52 
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Back on the point of global warming propoganda -"scientists say" ( now that opening line gets me worried) -they obviously don't have proof ,else they'd say that ,"that glogal warming is caused by vehicle emmissions " -so we should all try to drive about five miles a day less .Cue for those residing in Downing street to take to bikes :D -think not :? .( the ad is being broadcast by the "act on co2 brigade ) .Perhaps another Gov't job creation scheme ( possibly to decamp the SCP employees into when that white elephant dies :D )

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 22:37 
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Hmmm...

Do you think that there is a strong correlation between working for an SCP and belief in AGW?

There is some logic to why this might be true. Slavish belief in what they are told by their "bosses"; no independent train of thought...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 22:47 
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They don't need independent thought, they're told what to think and get paid for not thinking independently.
talking about thinking....here is the real reason for climate change hysteria.
The guy is either a seriously independent thinker, or a nutter.
Or a nutter who thinks independently of sanity ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:15 
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In view of the current weather conditions, this report from the Independent ten years ago looks a bit wide of the mark:

Quote:
Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past

By Charles Onians

Monday, 20 March 2000

Britain's winter ends tomorrow with further indications of a striking environmental change: snow is starting to disappear from our lives.

Sledges, snowmen, snowballs and the excitement of waking to find that the stuff has settled outside are all a rapidly diminishing part of Britain's culture, as warmer winters - which scientists are attributing to global climate change - produce not only fewer white Christmases, but fewer white Januaries and Februaries.

The first two months of 2000 were virtually free of significant snowfall in much of lowland Britain, and December brought only moderate snowfall in the South-east. It is the continuation of a trend that has been increasingly visible in the past 15 years: in the south of England, for instance, from 1970 to 1995 snow and sleet fell for an average of 3.7 days, while from 1988 to 1995 the average was 0.7 days. London's last substantial snowfall was in February 1991.

Global warming, the heating of the atmosphere by increased amounts of industrial gases, is now accepted as a reality by the international community. Average temperatures in Britain were nearly 0.6°C higher in the Nineties than in 1960-90, and it is estimated that they will increase by 0.2C every decade over the coming century. Eight of the 10 hottest years on record occurred in the Nineties.

However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become "a very rare and exciting event".

"Children just aren't going to know what snow is," he said.

The effects of snow-free winter in Britain are already becoming apparent. This year, for the first time ever, Hamleys, Britain's biggest toyshop, had no sledges on display in its Regent Street store. "It was a bit of a first," a spokesperson said.

I am currently stuck at home after having experienced probably the heaviest overnight snowfall in 20 years in this house :(

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:50 
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The more I read the more the whole thing stinks.

britain-facing-coldest-winter-for-30-years

Met Office shows last winter was indeed colder, despite their prediction for a mild winder (which according to the link above they did repeated for this year) Link

This graph, again from the Met Office, is interesting - in terms of range not the data.
The average temperature graphs show a lovely warming 'anomaly', but the data set stops at the year 2000 and 1990?!? Did they suddenly stop gathering temperature data? :scratchchin: :roll:
Could that premature ending be somehow related to claims that the planet hasn't been warming, or even cooling, over the last decade?

And from the pro-AGW BBC, on their front page (I can't watch the video here at work):
Attachment:
coldest EU.PNG [9.32 KiB]
Downloaded 2781 times

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:54 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Point of information, not an argument, but how do you insulate external solid walls?


You batten the inside of the rooms with the external walls and insulate those. Works very well. Ideal in conservation zones where you don't want to ruin the external appearance of a building. You lose some space in the room but most rooms generally only have a max of two external walls so you may lose a few inches here and there.


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