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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 14:24 
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A Cyclist wrote:
Thanks for your comments. Perhaps I should point out that I live in County Durham where there are no fixed speed cameras, maybe that has some relevance.


:lol: :lol:

You got our lads instead! :lol:

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The main problems seem to occur in the morning rush-hour when I am taking my daughter to the local station. Everyone seems to be in a tearing hurry. This morning for instance a driver in a Renault Megane waited behind (very close behind) until we were out of a 30 limit, didn't overtake immediately although he/ she could have done but instead overtook through a right-turn hatched area as a minibus started to turn right. As I was watching everything very closely I was able to brake almost to a stand so that said Megane driver didn't crash into either the minibus or my car or both.
I know the Highway Code very well - for instance that when following a cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle where double solid white lines are present one can only overtake where they are travelling at 10 mph or less. In the real world however one is extremely unlikely to be prosecuted for infringing (rather than flouting) this law.


Where is this? We can send somone down to monitor if this is regular occurence.

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Gatsobait - I mean by mostly law-abiding that in the car I don't intentionally speed, but on my motorbike I used to take the national 60 limit with a pinch of salt where I judged it safe to do so and where I judged I was unlikely to be prosecuted. My licence has remained clean throughout but some of this is of course good fortune.


Hmm... plenty of rope.... :wink:

So long as you do not end up as a born again biker in our danger area ....we are hitting the area hard and will be higher profile there. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 21:40 
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In Gear wrote:
So long as you do not end up as a born again biker in our danger area ....we are hitting the area hard and will be higher profile there. :wink:

What's up then..have the police finally twigged that a camera doesn't actually generate revenue where a bike is concerned so it's time to f*ck the biker over in person?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 21:51 
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Gixxer wrote:
What's up then..have the police finally twigged that a camera doesn't actually generate revenue where a bike is concerned so it's time to f*ck the biker over in person?


er, a word to the wise... IG is actually one of the good guys, and they don't like speed cameras in his area.

Cheers
Peter


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:03 
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To: In Gear
Rush-hour - I am travelling between Hurworth and Darlington either via Roundhill Road or the A167.

I certainly would not consider myself a born-again biker and when I have had a motorbike I keep away from the dangerous roads, e.g. the B1257 Stokesley to Helmsley Road, the A684 from Northallerton to Hawes etc. These roads are hazardous enough on a push-bike with some idiots travelling at very high speed and HGVs to boot. I prefer the quieter roads in Northumberland & the Scottish Borders for motorcycling.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 21:23 
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On the "open road" with a 60 limit I generally don't go faster then 50-55.


Why travel upto 10 mph below the limit, if it is safe to travel at the limit :?:

Do you feel like an unsafe driver, due to your age :!:

Quote:
I usually don't pull out at junctions in front of other drivers if this would cause them to to slow down or deviate from their intended course,


You should never pull out causing another vehicle to deviate from thier route, if they have right of way :!:

Quote:
This morning when I pulled out at a busy, fast roundabout in front of a "press-on" driver he or she started hooting and I had to stop part-way round roundabout to give precedence, holding everyone else up in the process.


If another driver is on the roundabout, they have right of way, i would of had a few choice words for you.

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I haven't had an accident in the car in 35 years apart from someone running into the rear whilst stationary at a junction and I don't have "near-misses" all the time. For everyone else's sake should I pack in driving or go back to a driving school for some lessons


If you are lacking confidence to drive at the same standard of other motorist's, clearly you require training or maybe it is time for the bus pass.

Are you a cyclist :?:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 22:13 
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bmwk12 wrote:
Why travel upto 10 mph below the limit, if it is safe to travel at the limit :?:

Do you feel like an unsafe driver, due to your age :!:


Some people like to drive under the limit. Which should be OK shouldn't it as I thought the idea was to travel at the speed at which you feel comfortable?
Or is this argument only permitted when someone is driving over the limit and is at risk of being 'zapped'?
Caveat...if you are obviously causing a mobile roadblock then getting out of the way once in a while is clearly a good, altruistic thing to do.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 22:17 
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Which should be OK shouldn't it as I thought the idea was to travel at the speed at which you feel comfortable?


No, it is not OK :!:

If you drive at 10 mph below the limit during a driving test, you would fail for not making progress!

Only last year, one of my drivers failed their LGV test for doing just that :!:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 22:26 
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bmwk12 wrote:
Quote:
Which should be OK shouldn't it as I thought the idea was to travel at the speed at which you feel comfortable?


No, it is not OK :!:

If you drive at 10 mph below the limit during a driving test, you would fail for not making progress!

Only last year, one of my drivers failed their LGV test for doing just that :!:


So if its safe to do so (presumably by some majority consensus), then everyone should drive at the limit? And if you can't, or don't want to....get off the road is that right? Tsk, and here's me thinking that the sign on the lollipop wasn't supposed to represent the only speed at which its safe to drive.

And are you sure your LGV driver failed only for failing to make progress?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 22:32 
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Rigpig wrote:
Some people like to drive under the limit. Which should be OK shouldn't it as I thought the idea was to travel at the speed at which you feel comfortable?


Only if the roads are quiet and the limit is properly set.
Otherwise you're at least inconveniencing everybody who has the misfortune to be behind you.
And if the limits are set too low, which is more than likely these days, then if you don't feel comfortable driving at the limit then you really ought to sort yourself out - one way or the other.

Cheers
Peter


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 22:37 
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Quote:
So if its safe to do so (presumably by some majority consensus), then everyone should drive at the limit?


As our Government set the guidlines, and they achieve their position by a majority vote, then yes you could say it is a majority concensus.

Quote:
And if you can't, or don't want to....get off the road is that right? Tsk, and here's me thinking that the sign on the lollipop wasn't supposed to represent the only speed at which its safe to drive.


The limits are coming down, making the red lollipop a farce :!:

Quote:
And are you sure your LGV driver failed only for failing to make progress


It is the standard required to pass your driving test!, and yes it clearly stated on the fail sheet "driving below the limit, failing to make progress"

Plus, using indicators too much

You must drive at the limit, so why when you have your license do drivers drive below the limit in safe conditions:?:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 22:46 
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Pete317 wrote:
Rigpig wrote:
Some people like to drive under the limit. Which should be OK shouldn't it as I thought the idea was to travel at the speed at which you feel comfortable?


Only if the roads are quiet and the limit is properly set.
Otherwise you're at least inconveniencing everybody who has the misfortune to be behind you.
And if the limits are set too low, which is more than likely these days, then if you don't feel comfortable driving at the limit then you really ought to sort yourself out - one way or the other.

Cheers
Peter



Aahhh, I see. So, there are a few caveats to this, driving at the speed at which you feel comfortable then. If others decide that the limit is too low, or are happy to drive faster than the limit, slower drivers should...er, sort themselves out then? Sorry, but I thought the roads were for everyones use.

BTW, I think I did put a caveat at the my post suggesting that slower drivers should get out of the way if they are obviously holding others up.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 22:58 
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bmwk12 wrote:
You must drive at the limit, so why when you have your license do drivers drive below the limit in safe conditions:?:

I don't remember reading that in the Highway Code.

I can think of many examples where I might choose to drive more quickly or slowly along a particular road depending on the circumstances. If it was part of a long cross-country business journey I would probably adopt a much more press-on approach than if I was taking my mother out for a Sunday drive.

So long as you are aware of what's going on around you and don't obstruct other drivers, there's nothing wrong with driving below the posted limit even if you could drive faster.

And you wouldn't fail a driving test for doing 45 mph on a rural NSL road that a highly skilled driver could take at 60.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 23:00 
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A Cyclist wrote:
I know the Highway Code very well - for instance that when following a cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle where double solid white lines are present one can only overtake where they are travelling at 10 mph or less.


Damn. You gave the answer away. :roll: :roll: :o :o

509 viewings. And I left it deliberately vague so that people would be encouraged to look it up.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 23:14 
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PeterE wrote:
And you wouldn't fail a driving test for doing 45 mph on a rural NSL road that a highly skilled driver could take at 60.


In the current climate you would.

Or are you referring to a twisting terrain where appreciation of 'limit points' and greater observational skills need to be employed, where there is some scope for caution to be employed?

I presume the latter.

On a clear road, with no obvious hazards, candidates are expected to attain the NSL.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 23:29 
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Rigpig wrote:
Aahhh, I see. So, there are a few caveats to this, driving at the speed at which you feel comfortable then. If others decide that the limit is too low, or are happy to drive faster than the limit, slower drivers should...er, sort themselves out then? Sorry, but I thought the roads were for everyones use.


That's not what I said.

Quote:
BTW, I think I did put a caveat at the my post suggesting that slower drivers should get out of the way if they are obviously holding others up.


Noted

Cheers
Peter


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 23:32 
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Grumps wrote:
PeterE wrote:
And you wouldn't fail a driving test for doing 45 mph on a rural NSL road that a highly skilled driver could take at 60.

In the current climate you would.

Or are you referring to a twisting terrain where appreciation of 'limit points' and greater observational skills need to be employed, where there is some scope for caution to be employed?

I presume the latter.

I was thinking in particular of main roads in the Peak District, but it applies to any twisty rural road, really. There will be places where a skilled driver could easily achieve 60 mph, but you wouldn't expect a test candidate to.

Quote:
On a clear road, with no obvious hazards, candidates are expected to attain the NSL.

Agreed, on well-aligned roads.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 23:50 
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Gixxer wrote:
In Gear wrote:
So long as you do not end up as a born again biker in our danger area ....we are hitting the area hard and will be higher profile there. :wink:

What's up then..have the police finally twigged that a camera doesn't actually generate revenue where a bike is concerned so it's time to f*ck the biker over in person?


We should leave well alone then eh?

Not likely!!

Weekend bikers are about 20 to 50 times more likely to kill themselves than the average motorist. They are responsible for around 15% of our total fatalities.

More than any user group, they are likely to have wives and children dependent on them staying alive.

On top of that they use public roads for sport. They generate more complaints from villagers and farmers than any other road user.

Damn right we'll target weekend bikers!

But like IG, we'll be looking primarily for the prats :roll: :roll:.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 00:17 
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IanH wrote:
Weekend bikers are about 20 to 50 times more likely to kill themselves than the average motorist. They are responsible for around 15% of our total fatalities.


Careful Ian, most of the risk comes from less than 20% of the weekend bikers, and the better 80% won't thank you for hassle.

You have to use your experience to try to indentify the trouble group within the larger set of weekend bikers.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 00:39 
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bmwk12 wrote:
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And are you sure your LGV driver failed only for failing to make progress


It is the standard required to pass your driving test!, and yes it clearly stated on the fail sheet "driving below the limit, failing to make progress"

Plus, using indicators too much


I can't help thinking there is more to this. Like how far below the limit.

I also suspect it is an examiners way of failing someone they simply think is not up to the required standard but otherwise did not get marked down enough for a fail.

I don't think it can be taken as meaning the authorities want us to drive spot on the limit at all times.

And anyway, if they do we know they are wrong.

If the original poster feels comfortable driving below the limit and is prepared to allow others to make progress where possible then I don't see a problem with that.

And yes, I think some extra training would probably help. A Cyclist has made the first step of realising they may not be perfect and asking for help. If more people did that the roads would start to become safer.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:37 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
IanH wrote:
Weekend bikers are about 20 to 50 times more likely to kill themselves than the average motorist. They are responsible for around 15% of our total fatalities.


Careful Ian, most of the risk comes from less than 20% of the weekend bikers, and the better 80% won't thank you for hassle.

You have to use your experience to try to indentify the trouble group within the larger set of weekend bikers.


Which is why
I wrote:
But like IG, we'll be looking primarily for the prats :roll: :roll:.

:wink:

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