Safe Speed Forums

We've all driven when we haven't ben 100% at our best or alert. How many of us can say that we have NEVER driven while tired, with a bad cold, headache, after hearing bad news, argument with a loved one, stiff neck...the list is endless...they all impede our ability to concentrate and give full attention to our driving though. So what's your take on that , weepej? Ban people from driving with headaches,in a bad mood, upset etc?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I may be wrong, but perhaps the point is that the notion that it "clearly impedes" is arguable?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Again, very strange logic.

Using a mobile phone whilst driving, which clearly impedes your ability to control your vehicle is something you can avoid doing, by simply not doing it.

When people drive their cars around don't you think they owe it to other people to be as much in control of their vehicle as possible?

Hay, I just fired a loaded gun into a crowd and nobody got hurt, so it must be perfectly safe!

So when you feel under the weather, you don't drive then? Even if you've planned to go on holiday that day for instance? This would clearly impede your ability to control your vehicle and concentrate and could clearly be avoided. So, Weepej, WOULD YOU DRIVE YOUR CAR with say a headache or a cold?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I might not depending on how bad the headache or cold was, but I'd never drive it whilst holding a mobile phone to my ear.

I don't get what's so difficult to understand.

Having a cold or a headache is not really a choice, but using a mobile phone at the wheel is.

Ok, so we are getting somewhere. You wouldn't use a mobile phone (even handsfree) whilst driving because you fel that it would impare your ability to drive. You might however drive with a cold or headache even though it would impede your ability to drive at 100%. So are you any less dangerous (driving with a cold or headache) than the guy who is 100% fit and talking handsfree?

(You did say earlier that you would like handsfree calls to be made illegal.)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

But as you say, driving with the headache is a choice.
It could so easily be said that "Driving with a cold/headache is IS driving like an idiot", afterall, we know they can impair.
Would you say you could use a phone depending on how bad you think the distraction is?


BTW, I'm not entrenched either way; I just thought I would throw that in and see where it leads.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

This could go on forever graball.

Once again, you're not comparing like for like.

I don't have too much of a problem with handsfree, but clearly the "100% fit" guy using it has reduced his ability to control his car, even more so if he's holding the phone to his ear.

Me, if I've got the flu and really shouldn't be operating machinery, I'm going to further reduce my ability to drive if I use a phone at the same time.


You're making a very strange leap to say it's ok for the 100% fit guy to use a phone because he's still a better driver than somebody who's not using a phone. It doesn't excuse the person using the mobile phone.

Do you think using a mobile phone whist you are driving (not handsfree) under normal day to day circumstances (i.e. when yours or somebody else's life doesn't depend on it) is acceptable behaviour?

Well actually, the OP is about handsfree usage of a phone and you said that's what you wanted banning. So that's the basis of my argument, although there are people out there who can use a handsfree in certain road conditions (open straight road with no other traffic about ) and be perfectly safe or at least as safe or safer than some of the worse drivers on the road without a mobile phone in their hands.

Personally, I see smoking at the wheel as a bigger or as big as danger as hand held mobile usage or eating an apple say. As for hands free usage , I would say that is no more dangerous than a conversation with a passenger. However it is not uncommon for most drivers to stop talking suddenly when something unexpected happens around them (like someone suddenly pulling across in front of them or braking suddenly) which illustrates that talking and driving does take more skill than driving alone.

You then say but earlier you said Perhaps you need to make up your mind on this one, Weepej?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Indeed, one can immediately put down the phone, or ignore the speaker when desired.


You're convoluting factors instead of comparing them. The same could be said with the factors reversed.

(Like I said, I don't have any overall opinion on this)

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

That is not the point.
The point is
a) that when we observe anothers illegal (now) actions, (whatever it may be) in this case on the phone, just because they are illegal does not make it necessarily dangerous, if it were that dangerous then we would have many more accidents and they are not happening,
b) the fact that many are seen (in this case) on the phone, means that it is less dangerous than we are led to believe,
c) I am not agreeing or disagreeing here if this activity is wrong or right, at this particular juncture.

Take (a) one step further, what do people do right to make themselves safe (not have an accident) then, even though they are on the phone?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I think all motorist need to act responsibly. Whilst I totally recommend stopping to eat, drink or smoke, there maybe times when such and activity maybe possible and safe - not as safe but safe enough.
As long as the driver 'pays full attention to the road ahead' than to the conversation - almost a subconscious level of 'chat' then when a developing or recognition of a potential hazard area demands their attention it receives it. Drivers readily do this, they typically 'go quite', as their full attention (conscious & subconscious) is focused on the task at hand.
A passenger can 'see' when a driver's attention is 'elsewhere' the person on the phone can only tell by a silence when they may have expected an answer - so they pause and wait.

Then the is a culture of learning. We have all learned to use a stereo in a car, and we do learn new ways of dealing with 'gadgets' we learn how to and when to. (when it is safe ...) Enforcement cameras and now seemingly CCTV (!) making every event a crime, before the 'authorities' have fully understood the statistical impact of these actions - that is appalling. One should have research first with clear indications of danger before implementing enforcement and then in this precise manner.
When Laws start to make every motorist paranoid that every minute detail of their actions are penalised just because it has taken place, than because it is, or was risky/dangerous, no education takes place only, the enforcement procedure. That earns no respect for the law, that wishes to 'make us safer' it fails totally in its very objective.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Most people who are on the phone do tend to slow down (this has the effect of giving you more time to react to an adverse situation), but still don't observe/drive properly, i.e. they still aren't in proper control of their vehicle. So I wouldn't say slowing down is doing something right. Doing something right to make themselves safer would involve, er, putting the phone down.

OK but that still fails to address the 'real world' issue that we see ... what I am driving (forgive) at is that - if it is 'meant' to be so dangerous, where are all the reports of minor to major accidents and the 1000's of complaints to the Police. I agree there are some .... but not the numbers we might expect if it were this 'big problem'.
I think hand free are 'fine', I think the findings of many more reports are needed to thoroughly understand it all.
I see people on the phone and they are being particularly observant. Like you say too they slow to allow more time to react.
So we have they slow to obtain better time to react, and they observe well - so what else might they do ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

...but... then they would speed up after putting down the phone.

From that point of view, surely it could be argued that phones make drivers safer because they slow down? ("speed kills" and all that)
Weepej, which effect wins?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Does using a hands free phone reduce concentration any more than talking to a passenger, especially if you are a driver that continually has to look at the person you are talking to? I know the argument is that passengers can see the road conditions, but do they? Are they concentrating on the road? Not in my experience. I have had to tell passengers to hang on. Personally I prefer to have more than one passenger then they can chat amongst themselves while I get on with the driving.

If I am talking on a phone and conditions require my full concentration I just tell the caller to hang on. I can then continue my conversation when conditions allow. How is this a problem?

I could equally say they don't, certainly the one's I see dialling their phone whilst looking at it don't!

Also, just watch somebody talking on a phone, they may well be looking in a direction, but they're not seeing, they're looking off into the distance.

http://mobile.blorge.com/2009/02/22/dri ... thousands/

I don't use the phone when on the road, more because I don't need the hassle than anything. Tomorrow I will be driving all day, I will only stop to water the grass and will eat, drink and possibly chat to my mates all while driving. Oh, and my infinatley variable transmission will come into its own, because forward speed will be critical.

I have seen a digger operator regularly take phone calls with his phone held between his neck and shoulder will using his diggers, and I have seen him take half an inch out of the base of a swimming pool with his digger while on the phone.

Mobile phone use has gone from just about zero 20 years ago to there being more phones than people in 2010, has there been a corresponding leap in phone related RTAs in this time?

This whole thing about "...anything less than 100% concentration..." is, in my view, utter bunkum.

NOBODY drives at 100% concentration level 100% of the time! Moreover, I believe that to try and do so, on anything but the shortest journeys, would be likely to endanger other road users as a result of the fatigue that it is bound to cause! Formula 1 drivers MIGHT be able to give pretty much 100% concentration for the duration of a race, but I doubt that even they manage it 100% of the time. What we actually need is "enough" concentration at any point in time and, like just about everything else in driving, "enough" is a quantity that varies continuously with the conditions.

The whole "mobile phone / eating / talking to a passenger / tuning the radio / looking at the satnav (or speedo) display" thing is being treated in the same ridiculous, binary way as speed limit compliance. Unlike the way in which all but the least enlightened would acknowledge that there's a world of difference between doing 71MPH on a clear, dry motorway and doing 100MPH past a school in the wet at chucking-out time, SURELY it must be understood that everything else, in terms of the dange it causes, depends on a huge number of factors. I have been struck, in the past, by the irony of the whole "hands free" thing. There have been occasions when the lousy sound quality of my hands-free has demanded FAR more concentration than holding the phone to my ear would have done - but to do so would clearly have been "dangerous".