Safe Speed Forums

Seems it's just as "quite poisonous and hot " now a days then, toooo

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Actually, it really wasn't hot at all when the atmosphere had in excess of 5000ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere; in fact despite that we were still having prolonged ice ages.
Our old supposed poisonous atmosphere did a lot for plant life, which in turn gave us the oxygen we now breath! So you should be very thankful for that CO2!!


Google definition: "blind curve: a curve or bend in the road that you cannot see around as you are driving"
So can you tell us how do you see around that type of bend, weepej?


If that's as self-centred as it gets then I'm not concerned (not exactly anti-non-motorist is it?). What PeterE said is entirely true, even if you don't want to concede it.
The abrogation of responsibility that 'strict liability' yields isn't somehow self-centred?!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Well I have ridden horses on the road but it is always to get to a 'ride' whether that is a park or fields depends on where one is and what type of riding one wishes to do (that can depend on horse type and what disciplines are intended, and what exercise routines one might be developing.) Like vehicles different types of horses are used for different types of activities and so on be better used for one job than another.
Just to let you know ...
Many people that I know who ride rarely complain of drivers and I have always made sure that I thank every driver and act appropriately.
Many years ago - I have only had one incident where the horse decided it didn't like something - (we were on a bend so many the oncoming cars or cars approaching carefully from behind), and she reared up and was very 'unsettled' (meaning stepping about and not going 'forward') but I encouraged her and spoke calmly and gently - this gives them more confidence as well as giving commands to go forward. The cars had quickly slowed and gave us the room I needed to sort her out. I was so busy though I was unable to thank them which was a shame.
Horses are unpredictable, she was 'sound' on the road and the long journey that we had taken that day there was no other issue at all. Horses get spooked even 'sound' one's ...
Some old rail tracks and drove roads are now re-opened as alternative routes and many are used in preference when one can.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

judging by the 4x4s + horseboxes or dedicated horse transporter trucks...... i suspect most horse riders pay quite alot of road tax.

Maybe I should have said, "SOME horse riders p@@@ me off". I must admit the majority that I do see (and that's quite a lot, in this part of the world, are appreciative that you slow and give them a wide bearth but you still get the odd one who, no matter how slowly you pass and how much distance you give them , still look at you as if to say, "what are you doing driving a car on a busy B road when I want it purely for me and my horse?"
I can appreciate people riding on quiet lanes but to ride a horse on a busy, twisty B road at peak times, in my opinion is suicidal.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

That's as may be but if I have a second car or motorbike, that I want to use on the road, I have to insure and tax it seperately.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

On the other hand:
Fuel costs are high..
Maintenance is very high and there are no "second-user" parts to replace those that "break"
The "pollution" is still released on the road (no anal or urethral cat )
Both drivers and "vehicle" are unpredictable to a high degree

Not too different from a car.......

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I've never had anything other than respect from horse riders providing I've given them the respect they deserve.

When you have seen the damage a spooked horse can do to a car you will give them as much room as you can.



Hmmm... you think the horse rider isn't aware of this? I doubt many think "now, what time shall I go out for a nice enjoyable ride. Oh how about 4.30 on a Friday."

Come on now, lets not fall into the same us and them trap as other groups, we all have to share the same space. Better to get on with it without imposing silly regulations which do nobody any good.

Er, road tax was abolished in 1937, there's no such thing as road tax.

Hmm, we certainly wouldn't be here today if those plants and animals that flourished in the CO2 rich atmosphere hadn't taken all the CO2 and locked it up in the earth's crust and replaced it with a better balance of oxygen suitable for us.



I can tell you how you turn any bend into a blind bed, drive too fast around it, it's not hard!



Ah, right, cutting speeds is just about making life worse for motorists is it? Hmmm. Can't see past the end of your noses by the looks of it!



Germany manage it quite well, I'd I'd hardly call that country anti motorist.

Cor, you don't have much faith in the abilities of your fellow drivers do you!

I knew some people just wouldn't get it

Quite right Weepy...

...it's called VEHICLE Excise Duty now...

Nope!
We would still be here if there was plenty more CO2 in the atmosphere as well as oxygen the (old) CO2 created.
Face it, the planet was not any hotter when we had more than 10x current CO2 levels (indeed it was colder at many times); this was the underlying point - your lack of response to the " ... wasn't hot at all ... prolonged ice ages." issue says it all!
Additionally: CO2 is merely 'mildly narcotic' at 50x current levels!


Let me get this right: the sightlines around a bend suddenly vanish depending on the entry speed? I know about space/time warp/dilation, but know nothing about the theory you have proposed. Do enlighten us, by directly answering the question I posed to you which you quoted


Strawman!

That need not be the only reason to cut limits. Another may be a misguided attempt at making a road safer. Another could be an attempt by SCPs to maintain their revenue streams. Another could be a genuine safety initiative.

Perhaps this is more a case of 'you cannot see past the end of critical arguments'?


It didn't used to be, but it is getting that way.
So what of my question: isn't calling 'strict liability' somehow self-centred? (don't evade again next time)


I have far less faith in the abilities of the horse, and even the horse/rider combination - but I guess that was just too obvious for you to consider!
There is also the inescapable speed differential.

If we knew horses could maintain traffic speeds, and can still brake hard if need be, and were never spooked by motor vehicles (notice how cyclists weren't mentioned here), then it possibly wouldn't be suicidal. So why is your focus purely assumed onto the driver?
I think your bias is showing.....

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

MUCH WORSE than a car! This always seems to happen. By the time a generation or two of people have not been able to sample what life was like before something, they only see the bad things about what they have today and wistfully hark back to the "good old days" (that they themseves never had to suffer)! We see it with all sorts of things, but here's a little extract from a bygone era:

"IN 1 8 9 8 , delegates from across the globe gathered in New York City for the world’s first international urban planning conference. One topic dominated the discussion. It was not housing, land use, economic development, or infrastructure. The delegates were driven to desperation by horse manure. The horse was no newcomer on the urban scene. But by the late 1800s, the problem of horse pollution had reached unprecedented heights. The growth in the horse population was outstripping even the rapid rise in the number of human city dwellers. American cities were drowning in horse manure as well as other unpleasant byproducts of the era’s predominant mode of transportation: urine, flies, congestion, carcasses, and traffic accidents.Widespread cruelty to horses was a form of environmental degradation as well.

The situation seemed dire. In 1894, the Times of London estimated that by 1950 every street in the city would be buried nine feet deep in horse manure. One New York prognosticator of the 1890s concluded
that by 1930 the horse droppings would rise to Manhattan’s third-story windows. A public health and sanitation crisis of almost unimaginable dimensions loomed.

And no possible solution could be devised. After all, the horse had been the dominant mode of transportation for thousands of years. Horses were absolutely essential for the functioning of the nineteenth century
city—for personal transportation, freight haulage, and even mechanical power. Without horses, cities would quite literally starve. All efforts to mitigate the problem were proving woefully inadequate.
Stumped by the crisis, the urban planning conference declared its work fruitless and broke up in three days instead of the scheduled ten."


(From "Horse Power to Horsepower" by Eric Morris)

Interestingly, he goes on to quote (what I assume to be well-researched facts) such as:

"Horses killed in other, more direct ways as well. As difficult as it may be to believe given their low speeds, horse-drawn vehicles were far deadlier than their modern counterparts. In New York in 1900, 200 persons were killed by horses and horse-drawn vehicles. This contrasts with 344 auto-related fatalities in New York in 2003; given the modern city’s greater population, this means the fatality rate per capita in the horse era was roughly 75 percent higher than today. Data from Chicago show that in 1916 there were 16.9 horse-related fatalities for each 10,000 horse-drawn vehicles; this is nearly seven times the city’s fatality rate per auto in 1997."

But, mole - the answer to the horse dung problem was to replace the horse with a radically different mode of transport. So, by analogy, the problem of motor car pollution should be addressed by replacing the motor car - not a solution that seems popular with the denizens of these forums.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

The auto-pollution problem is already being addressed. The gains made so far with the removal of particulates and noxious emissions have been huge, and are continuing. Unlike horses, there is no danger of wading through a sea of car parts 9ft deep in 50 years time, so I don't see why we now need to replace private, powered transport.

But what's the issue: replacing one form of private powered transport with another, or replacing private powered transport with public transport ?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The car replaced the horse because it was a better mode of transport, not because it was dreamed up as an answer to the dung problem.
Likewise when someone comes up with a better mode of transport than the car, I'm sure most people will be happy to embrace it.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

er, the current concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere is roughly three orders of magnitude greater than the CO2 concentration. I seriously doubt that doubling, or even quadrupling the CO2 concentration will make a noticeable difference to the oxygen concentration.

In any case, if the oxygen levels were substantially different to what they are then we probably would have evolved slightly differently.



How would you know? The only way to know that is to try it yourself. But you haven't, have you?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Not to mention selfish.
Cars on the road at peak times are mostly carrying people going about their business.
Horses, OTOH, are used almost exclusively for recreational purposes - at any time.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler