Safe Speed Forums

When one suffers from a disproportionate amount of adverse reactions, then one must reconsider how one 'feels' and acts.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

You didn't answer my question.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

MrGrumpyCyclist wrote:
Reasonable means until the cyclist feels it is safe to let people pass. There can be no other sensible definition


If this was a large vehicle causing a large tail back ,you wouldn't be surprised to see a PC pull it over and let traffic pass . The rules apply to him ,so why not to cyclists - if no safe place to move over -find a safe place to let traffic pass - elementary road courtesy .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

It was a loaded question designed to divert attention away from the real issues, and you deliberately changed the emphasis, so I will not try to answer it directly. It is reasonable to expect someone to make decisions about their own safety based on whether they feel safe, even if it slightly inconveniences other people.

If you are asking whether I consider it reasonable for someone deliberately to obstruct another road user when it is patently obvious that there is plenty of room to pass safely, then no, but that isn't what we are talking about here. (But then you already know that perfectly well.) The same applies to botach's comment.

Bye.

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"That which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without argument.” - Julian Assange

Nope, not having that! You seemed to be saying that it was reasonable for the cyclist to decide, on behalf of another road user, when it was safe for them to execute a manoeuvre, it plain to see in black and white. I changed nothing, I quoted you and asked for clarification. It is you who is now twisting and turning.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Actually, this question is just another form of words about an issue debated at length in other threads on here. It isn't a loaded question, just one which reveals the underlying attitudes of the respondent.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

"Bye"

Troll from a cycling forum?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

What happened to that smilie (trycycle thingy)??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

IMe or him Botach? You have me at an advantage, you old SS timer you

I was hoping to engage more with him because I am a cyclist too, like so many here, but it went wrong somewhere sadly.

If he's not a troll I would expect him to come back. No-one gave him an especially hard time here, unless I missed something..

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

This is a great example of what I mean (as mentioned by MGC); see the video:

http://www.magnatom.blogspot.com/ (this is the homepage, so not exactly 'cherry picked')

Now what that HGV driver did was very wrong, and had nothing to do with any action of the cyclist.

However,

The cyclist was well in the carriageway, even though there is a perfectly good cycle lane to the left - for at least a full 20 seconds before the roundabout. There weren't even any obstacles in the way. After the after the roundabout, guess what he does next......

This isn't "primary position" - it's a blatant p155 take!

With HGV drivers like that are folks really, really, really sure they wish to remain in such a position on the road?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

IMHO with something comparisons made ,the atmosphere was most gentlemanly .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

What was wrong with cyclist using cycle path to let HGV past .Haven't been on a bike near HGV for a few years ,but as a car driver I've always found a bit of courtesy to them is re payed many times over .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

What I find difficult to understand is that a significant proportion of cyclists bother filming this sort of thing and posting it online. How many car drivers do you know that do this?

Still one glance at the kids when passing a junior school should get the pedallers (have I spelled that correctly? Paed..) in trouble when the coppers look at their videos.

How's that for gratuitous offensiveness, Top Gear?

Almost as bad as implying that

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Most cyclists are annoyed when they lose momentum because somebody (pedestrian or vehicle) carelessly impedes their progress - I know I am, but I do read on forums of many who get really shirty with the cause of their annoyance, and then retaliate when the opportunity arises.

Perhaps this is just internet bravado - but if it is, then it does not help the cyclists case.

This chap seems to have a very good handle on what is safe, and what is careless/unsafe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBDN15POkIY

I'm lucky - I cycle 4.54 miles a day on a rural route, on a cycle/footpath, and rarely see another cyclist... and just a few motorists to contend with at each end.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

The HGV came from a different route, their paths crossed on the roundabout.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Ta Steve -didn't see the vid -using a pov spec laptop at mob

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

OK, as Big Tone predicted, I came back. (He didn't give me much choice really!)

The reason I got fed up with this discussion is because some people here seem to have very entrenched views, and there seems to be no point in wasting time trying to discuss these issues here. There seems to be a clear tactic of picking on tiny parts of an argument to take issue with, to the detriment of the real issues, and the motivation in some cases seems to be about scoring points rather than illuminating the issues and putting forward a coherent point of view.

Ernest illustrated that graphically in his 4653rd post when he highlighted a small part of a sentence, ignoring the context of the sentence in which that phrase appeared, and then proceeded to apply a totally different meaning and intent to it.

Botach illustrated the attitude when he tried to claim that Magnatom was to blame for the tanker incident and then subsequently had to admit that he hadn't a clue what he was talking about because he hadn't even seen the video.

However, that was only the most extreme case of the attitude already betrayed by Steve, when he tried to imply that Magnatom was somehow to blame for the tanker driver's blatant dangerous driving. Magnatom was following the highway code to the letter, putting into practice all the established good cycling practice, and you still tried to put the blame on him. You will claim that you didn't, but you clearly did, starting from the word "However".

Malcolmw made a crass comment about paedophilia and then took another phrase of mine out of context, trying to make it look as though my illustration of the absurdity of making generalisations was actually a serious accusation, which it clearly wasn't when viewed in its original context.

Sorry if you think those comments are unfair, but that's how they came across to me.

Big Tone does seem to be interested in discussing the issues and understanding something of the rationale behind the use of video cameras and why people feel the need to do this. So, you may be interested in looking at my blog, which is in its early days, but does have some information in it.
In particular, have a look at the videos in this article: http://www.mrgrumpycyclist.org/?p=74 (Steve please note that I was either close to the kerb or overtaking parked cars in all but one of those cases.)
For an explanation of the rationale behind my strategy at one tricky junction, please look at this one: http://www.mrgrumpycyclist.org/?p=17

Ernest, I agree that Gaz545 is doing an excellent job with his Silly Cyclists series. I also post videos of stupid cyclists I see, but Gaz really is making an impression with his superbly well-produced articles. He is probably the most thoughtful, cautious cycle commuter that I know of, but have you seen this recent video of his? http://www.youtube.com/user/gaz545#p/u/24/fqCwjC2VIXw I think that car driver was damn lucky it wasn't bus or a taxi coming down there rather than a cyclist!
You may be interested to know that Gaz545 also has a blog (far better than mine), in which he discusses many of these issues at: http://croydoncyclist.wordpress.com/

No, I am not a troll. Internet trolls do not try to make rational arguments, but instead try to say things that are completely at a tangent but are designed to inflame people (much like Malcolmw's paedophile comment in fact!) I probably won't post here for a while, mainly because I have a life. I wish you all well, and just hope that we can get to a position where the prats who drive and cycle like complete idiots, making all our lives less pleasant, somehow get dealt with. Let's also hope that we can somehow stop the media (BBC) from constantly trying to present this as cyclists versus cars, just because that approach is more likely to build up their ratings. ("Cyclists have a new weapon in their war against motorists" ... for Christ's sake, let's stop being manipulated by them!)

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"That which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without argument.” - Julian Assange

I had thought that perhaps I'd met a cyclist who'd seen the light despite the "DRIVE A WEDGE " from the usual assailants .
I admit ,THAT AT THAT POINT I'd not seen the video .
I have now seen the video , and it shocks me .
1- the behaviour of the tanker .
But then I look at the layoit of the island .I look at the video of the cyclist .I look at the perceived speed of the cyclist AND ASK WHAT DISTANCE HE COULD EXPECT TO STOP IN .

Then U look back at the island - and the video - do I see any speed reduction by the cyclist - none visible .Do I see any head movement to look for hazards from left --NO,NO .NONE WHATSOEVER .
Then I look at the video on approach - plenty of evidence of looking right for hazaeds - none of a general sweep for anything untoward .
The cyclist rode onto the island ASSUMING ( AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS -ASS /U /ME) THAT all traffic would stop .It's nice to be right , but better to give way ( even in the right) and come home in one bit .

PERHAPS THIS VIDEO MIGHT BE SHOWN TO ALL CYCLISTS TO MAKE THEM AWARE OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN THEY ASSUME THAT THEY HAVE RIGHT OF WAY .

Years ago , my father gave me some advice

"Better to be a live coward ,than a dead hero" .

I'd ask whether the cyclist was aware of the dangers ,or trying to b a hero, or simply not competent .


OH-BTW ,Mr Angry - I'd sooner see a live cyclist ,than have to see blame proportioned through ignorance or bloody mindness

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Seems you couldn't pick any fault with my arguing style, as opposed to everyone else's (whilst complaining of the tactic of picking faults to the detriment of the big issues). With that in mind would you care to answer my question now? It does seem quite relevant to the attitude of at least one of the bikers who are taking these videos.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

He may have realised the futility of discussing cycling in a forum where the underlying paradigm is that "the vast majority of cyclists are lawless"

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown