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SafeSpeedv2
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 17:45 
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Elmbridge Guardian here
Clare Buchanan wrote:
White van man told to watch his speed in Surrey
By Clare Buchanan 7:00am Saturday 26th March 2011

Van drivers have been reminded to stick to their tailored speed limits by Surrey County Council.

During recent enforcement by the Surrey Safety Camera Partnership on the A3 at Hook, near Esher, some van drivers pulled over said they were unaware they could not drive at the same speed as cars.

The law states that transit type vans can only travel at a maximum of 50mph on single carriageway and 60mph on a dual carriageway – 10mph slower than cars.

Anyone driving a van that has a maximum laden weight of more than two tonnes, but less than 7.5 tonnes is restricted to the lower speed limits on all single carriageways and dual carriageways, including Surrey roads such as the A3, A217, A30 and A320 Surrey County.

Council leader Dr Andrew Povey said: “With the boom in internet shopping over the past five or 10 years there has been a huge increase in the number of vans carrying goods on the roads.

“However, it seems some van drivers assume they can drive at the same speeds as cars. The lower speed limits have been around for more than 20 years and I would urge all van drivers to make sure they know how fast they are allowed to travel.”

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SafeSpeedv2
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 17:49 
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The heavier weight out to be accounted for but what when they are unladen at all ?
The rules do not fit the circumstances, and need to be updated. Rules require common sense to work and a rule from 20 yrs ago needs to be reviewed and updated.

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PeterE
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 18:10 
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The rule would be better expressed as "vans under 2 tonnes mgw" (which is what it actually is) rather than the vague "car-derived vans", which has been made more confusing by the blurring of boundaries between vans and cars.

It's a daft rule anyway, but given that it exists it could be made much clearer.

Incidentally, apart from the A3, are there any other :nsl: roads left in Surrey now where vans could reasonably exceed their lower speed limits?

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Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed
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adam.L
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 19:23 
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What does a fully loaded full fat Range Rover weigh? More than most vans, I'll wager
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Mole
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 19:42 
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Absolutely!!!

But why stop at Range Rovers? Almost all big MPVs weigh more than 2 tonnes fully-loaded. And let's not mention Jags, big Beamers, Mercs... 2 tonnes ain't a lot!

The real joke is when you get a panel van limited to 50MPH and you convert it to a camper van by putting a "garden shed" on the back, making it MUCH heavier AND more top-heavy, but somehow it's "safe" for 60! The manufacturers of vehicles that can be made in van or passenger carrying form are always completely bemused by the whole "car-derived / van-derived" thing. It is a completely meaningless concept in engineering terms. They are designed SIMULTANEOUSLY for both duties. More often than not, they have identical braking and suspension systems and (perhaps not surprisingly :roll: ) remarkably similar stopping and handling characteristics!

It really is one of the absolute gems of speed limit policy which, I think beyond all others, proves that the people who make them have very little understanding of what they are regulating!
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graball
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 20:27 
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It all seems a bit vague anyway. I read a report in our newspaper about fifteen years ago, saying that it was "transit sized vans and above" that were limited (the smaller transits weren't out then, I don't think). Which lead me to believe at the time, that because I was driving a Fiat Scudo, that it didn't apply to me.

Then you get reports saying, " only car derived vans are exempt"...all very confusing, which is typical of British "safety" legislation.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.
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Homer
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:15 
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adam.L wrote:
What does a fully loaded full fat Range Rover weigh? More than most vans, I'll wager


Been discussed before.

The Peugeot 807 is based on the running gear of a van, it comes in at over two tonnes, it is in effect a van derived car, yet the car speed limits apply.

The equivalent van would be no less safe to drive at 70mph on a DC.

The law is an ass.
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jomukuk
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 21:29 
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If it's a "car derived van" it will state so in the V5.
If it doesn't, it isn't.
Vans converted to campers are the same limit as vans, unless the taxation class has been changed.
Hire vans have the limits posted inside them.
The highway code says the limits.
How hard can it be ?

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Mole
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 23:04 
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jomukuk wrote:
If it's a "car derived van" it will state so in the V5.
If it doesn't, it isn't.
Vans converted to campers are the same limit as vans, unless the taxation class has been changed.
Hire vans have the limits posted inside them.
The highway code says the limits.
How hard can it be ?


Pretty certain camper vans can do 60 on NSL SCs provided they don't weigh more than 3050kg UNladen (which is probably most of them) OR can carry more than 8 passengers. What makes you say they have to stick to the same limits as panel vans?

Also, I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not something is "car-derived" or "van-derived", I'm just saying that it's (in engineering terms) a completely meaningless concept!
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Mole
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 23:08 
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Homer wrote:

The Peugeot 807 is based on the running gear of a van, it comes in at over two tonnes, it is in effect a van derived car, yet the car speed limits apply.

The equivalent van would be no less safe to drive at 70mph on a DC.

The law is an ass.


Pretty certain the 807 was a new project? I think the 806 floorpan was also the "old shape" Expert / Scudo / Dispatch van, and the 807 later became the "new shape" Expert / Scudo / Dispatch van.
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